Churchwork
03-06-2006, 10:46 AM
Simon (Knidertu), who was a moderator of this forum, has been removed from being a moderator and a member. He is without the love of the Lord, and I can not be convinced now he is actually a brother in Christ because for the rest of his life he will never repent of his treatment of women. The reasons are as follows why he was removed:
- He deceived me and can't repent. He said he agreed with not only the 18 questions, but also the 33 questions, and I recall us going through them together. Yet, he changes his mind while he calls himself an Apostle and an Elder. Does an Apostle diabolically change his mind so radically to the complete opposite teaching? Simon is obsessed with Watchman Nee's writings. In so doing he misread something Nee said about women legalistically. Nee in his culture as was the culture of most countries in past centuries, was a time in which women elders were not the norm (e.g. RCC, that great harlot of religious Rome that makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications, Rev. 14.8). But today, in Simon's country of Germany, and America, women can vote and do many things they could not before. These changes all happened in the last century. Simon wants to live under a past religious system. Therefore, he can not be an apostle or an elder in God's eyes.
- Question 17 asks if women can be elders. Simon answered Yes to this question, but many months later said women can not be, while still answering Yes to this question, say this to be the correct answer even though he changed his mind (he is being curt, speaking roundabout this). This is a contradiction and doubletongued (see VI. Board Etiquette 4.), which goes against the love of this forum. It is entirely too banal and recondite, not giving glory to God. He gives no reason for rejecting the Word of God, for Paul never said that women can not be Elders. We need to be careful of legalizers who seek to be abusive towards women or to control them. Paul's thought on women is that they can be highly emotional which creates problems affecting judgment, but the past hundred years women have been given rights never before seen in history, to be able to vote, and take on any legislative body, even President or Priminister of a country. The reason is because women have let their emotion be more controlled, and so responsibility comes with that. If a women can be an Apostle, certainly she can be an Elder of a meeting place. How sad it would be that not even one woman on the whole planet was allowed to be an Elder of a meeting place or an Elder of a locality. Is this not the most brutal and barbaric legalization you have ever heard of? To do this to women is not love. The man that treats women this way is without the love of the Lord and is not walking with the Lord presently or in the future. This false fruit of refusing women directly exposes their heart condition.
- To understand this point about being doubletongued, imagine if you will Simon continued for 10 years to be an Apostle for the Church, and never once did he mention to me about his real view regarding women. I would not know the difference unless it got back to me somehow from someone else. You would then have a massive division in the Church. It would not be unlike the division in Methodists where half of them are arminian and half are calvinists. Just as God's way is osas arminian, so too is God's way towards women: not that all women can be elders, nor that no women can be elders, but that as the centuries have progressed, more women percentage-wise will become apostles and elders. Please do not be afraid of this for this is a glory to God in which the 12 apostles to establish Biblical locality will be six men and six women. Now that I think of it, harkening back, I recall Simon took issue with there needs be six female and six apostles. Wow!
- Often, people try to hang their hat on some special teaching, some way to self-exalt themselves, even though it is a false teaching. Nonetheless, they grab onto anything to find that one thing that will exalt them above another, as they try to make themselves an authority by their own strength. Such arrogance and egotistical pride will never have authority in God's kingdom. Praise God!
- The power of these questions by the Holy Spirit have brought out his real belief and doublespeak. As the months wore on, these loving truths continued to eat away at him because he did not have this spiritual reality, and he could no longer take it, finally exposing himself by admitting he rejects women this way. Such a view towards women is without authority and submission in the Church. Many Christian women are responsible elders. This responsibility extends to having responsibility as Elders to also give approval to proper meetings for the sisters along with other kinds of meetings in the church locality.
- The apostle is not male centric; today, women can vote and take all kinds of positions of responsibility. Just as women can be apostles, so they can be elders. To allow one class without the other is a contradiction. Simon agrees women can be apostles, but refuses women to take care of a meeting place or a locality. This is not the Holy Spirit in Simon. Perhaps he is having women issues at home or at work, who can say.
- Often times when someone feels the need to make more money in the world, feeling financial pressures, pressure from those in the world, they will all of a sudden act different for self-preservation and forsake the work for the church. This happens all too often with those who did not have proper footing in the Lord. Allegiances are dropped for allegiances of the world. What was a testimony before has turned stale, but it did not turn stale all of a sudden because it was building up to explode. Prior to the explosive aberrant behavior, the person could not abide all the way in the joy of the Lord, and as a result he falls.
- There are other unloving belligerencies such as claiming Brandon agrees with him, when Brandon in fact does not. Where two or three are gathered together, and one will not listen to the gathering, bring it to the Church, and if he still won't listen, then cast him out. Simon has been cast out of the Church. http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/womenelders.htm
- Another belligerency by Simon is saying for several years he understands the purpose here - http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/bodyofchrist.htm - and now all of a sudden emotionally saying he is confused. This estranged behavior all of a sudden is most odd. It is like I am talking to a different person. The world must be affecting him greatly. It's amazing how people in the world, or the "tares" in the appearance of the kingdom, can turn on you for no valid reason. The invalid reason for their behavior is their new found attachment to the world, forsaking the Church. Call this their "unspoken, subterranean motivation."
What have I (and what can those in the Work) learn from this experience in which Simon is turning 180 degrees on the Work for the Church? We have learned that we have to be even more careful, for though someone can say they agree with the 18 questions for elders and 33 questions for apostles, they still in fact may not agree at all, by their doubletalk.
Consequently, as a result of this problem, I have added a question, not numbered, between question 18 and question 19. See it for yourself to understand why it belongs. http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/womenapostles.htm
There is a very positive result and testimony to be had here. That testimony is the power of the questions by the Holy Spirit, that, though they can not stop someone from being outright unethical towards these questions by claiming they agree when they do not; in time, the person exposes what they really believe and how they contradict themselves towards these questions, by their own words, if they are not in these truths.
Simon has been prevented from creating a split in the Church with his new teaching against women.
Praise the Lord! Thank you Jesus. Amen. Awomen too!
- He deceived me and can't repent. He said he agreed with not only the 18 questions, but also the 33 questions, and I recall us going through them together. Yet, he changes his mind while he calls himself an Apostle and an Elder. Does an Apostle diabolically change his mind so radically to the complete opposite teaching? Simon is obsessed with Watchman Nee's writings. In so doing he misread something Nee said about women legalistically. Nee in his culture as was the culture of most countries in past centuries, was a time in which women elders were not the norm (e.g. RCC, that great harlot of religious Rome that makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications, Rev. 14.8). But today, in Simon's country of Germany, and America, women can vote and do many things they could not before. These changes all happened in the last century. Simon wants to live under a past religious system. Therefore, he can not be an apostle or an elder in God's eyes.
- Question 17 asks if women can be elders. Simon answered Yes to this question, but many months later said women can not be, while still answering Yes to this question, say this to be the correct answer even though he changed his mind (he is being curt, speaking roundabout this). This is a contradiction and doubletongued (see VI. Board Etiquette 4.), which goes against the love of this forum. It is entirely too banal and recondite, not giving glory to God. He gives no reason for rejecting the Word of God, for Paul never said that women can not be Elders. We need to be careful of legalizers who seek to be abusive towards women or to control them. Paul's thought on women is that they can be highly emotional which creates problems affecting judgment, but the past hundred years women have been given rights never before seen in history, to be able to vote, and take on any legislative body, even President or Priminister of a country. The reason is because women have let their emotion be more controlled, and so responsibility comes with that. If a women can be an Apostle, certainly she can be an Elder of a meeting place. How sad it would be that not even one woman on the whole planet was allowed to be an Elder of a meeting place or an Elder of a locality. Is this not the most brutal and barbaric legalization you have ever heard of? To do this to women is not love. The man that treats women this way is without the love of the Lord and is not walking with the Lord presently or in the future. This false fruit of refusing women directly exposes their heart condition.
- To understand this point about being doubletongued, imagine if you will Simon continued for 10 years to be an Apostle for the Church, and never once did he mention to me about his real view regarding women. I would not know the difference unless it got back to me somehow from someone else. You would then have a massive division in the Church. It would not be unlike the division in Methodists where half of them are arminian and half are calvinists. Just as God's way is osas arminian, so too is God's way towards women: not that all women can be elders, nor that no women can be elders, but that as the centuries have progressed, more women percentage-wise will become apostles and elders. Please do not be afraid of this for this is a glory to God in which the 12 apostles to establish Biblical locality will be six men and six women. Now that I think of it, harkening back, I recall Simon took issue with there needs be six female and six apostles. Wow!
- Often, people try to hang their hat on some special teaching, some way to self-exalt themselves, even though it is a false teaching. Nonetheless, they grab onto anything to find that one thing that will exalt them above another, as they try to make themselves an authority by their own strength. Such arrogance and egotistical pride will never have authority in God's kingdom. Praise God!
- The power of these questions by the Holy Spirit have brought out his real belief and doublespeak. As the months wore on, these loving truths continued to eat away at him because he did not have this spiritual reality, and he could no longer take it, finally exposing himself by admitting he rejects women this way. Such a view towards women is without authority and submission in the Church. Many Christian women are responsible elders. This responsibility extends to having responsibility as Elders to also give approval to proper meetings for the sisters along with other kinds of meetings in the church locality.
- The apostle is not male centric; today, women can vote and take all kinds of positions of responsibility. Just as women can be apostles, so they can be elders. To allow one class without the other is a contradiction. Simon agrees women can be apostles, but refuses women to take care of a meeting place or a locality. This is not the Holy Spirit in Simon. Perhaps he is having women issues at home or at work, who can say.
- Often times when someone feels the need to make more money in the world, feeling financial pressures, pressure from those in the world, they will all of a sudden act different for self-preservation and forsake the work for the church. This happens all too often with those who did not have proper footing in the Lord. Allegiances are dropped for allegiances of the world. What was a testimony before has turned stale, but it did not turn stale all of a sudden because it was building up to explode. Prior to the explosive aberrant behavior, the person could not abide all the way in the joy of the Lord, and as a result he falls.
- There are other unloving belligerencies such as claiming Brandon agrees with him, when Brandon in fact does not. Where two or three are gathered together, and one will not listen to the gathering, bring it to the Church, and if he still won't listen, then cast him out. Simon has been cast out of the Church. http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/womenelders.htm
- Another belligerency by Simon is saying for several years he understands the purpose here - http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/bodyofchrist.htm - and now all of a sudden emotionally saying he is confused. This estranged behavior all of a sudden is most odd. It is like I am talking to a different person. The world must be affecting him greatly. It's amazing how people in the world, or the "tares" in the appearance of the kingdom, can turn on you for no valid reason. The invalid reason for their behavior is their new found attachment to the world, forsaking the Church. Call this their "unspoken, subterranean motivation."
What have I (and what can those in the Work) learn from this experience in which Simon is turning 180 degrees on the Work for the Church? We have learned that we have to be even more careful, for though someone can say they agree with the 18 questions for elders and 33 questions for apostles, they still in fact may not agree at all, by their doubletalk.
Consequently, as a result of this problem, I have added a question, not numbered, between question 18 and question 19. See it for yourself to understand why it belongs. http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/womenapostles.htm
There is a very positive result and testimony to be had here. That testimony is the power of the questions by the Holy Spirit, that, though they can not stop someone from being outright unethical towards these questions by claiming they agree when they do not; in time, the person exposes what they really believe and how they contradict themselves towards these questions, by their own words, if they are not in these truths.
Simon has been prevented from creating a split in the Church with his new teaching against women.
Praise the Lord! Thank you Jesus. Amen. Awomen too!