Agnostic Atheism is a Contradiction

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10-16-2010, 12:14 AM
Parture

Agnostic Atheism is a Contradiction

Are You Atheist or Agnostic?

My main point is to show "agnostic atheism" is a contradiction for to state God does not exist atheism is the only word that I know of in the English language and would be in direct contradiction with being agnostic since an agnostic says he has no evidence either way, thus, he can make no claim either way. He can't be an atheist because he can't state that God does not exist since he admits he doesn't know. The atheist makes the claim God does not exist. These are the traditional meanings of these two words, so the meanings you find on wiki are obviously devised by atheists to convolute and play down the evil nature of being an atheist. Satan is the author of confusion. The fact of the matter, all too often, the person who calls himself an atheist is really a closet agnostic, but the term agnostic doesn't roll off the tongue. It is based on feelings only, not logic.

If you want to find another word for the belief that you do not have faith in the existence of any deity, by all means come up with a word, but I for one disallow you to change the traditional meaning of atheism and agnosticism since there are no other words in the English language to claim God does not exist and of not being sure either way. I need to identify what you really are so you can't deceive others and myself. If you don't believe God exists then I call just what you are, an atheist. If you have no faith in any God because you are not sure either way, then I call you an agnostic. If you don't like that, that's your problem! I can't force you to accept reality, but I can reiterate it. If you know God exists but have no faith Him, that's another matter altogether. Satan knows God exists but he has no faith in Him, yet he is not agnostic nor atheist. He is just screwed in the head for we all know God exists and therefore, should have faith in Him (Rom. 1.20).

You should clearly see the error on the wiki page that obviously is being propagated by atheists to try to make themselves look less evil. In fact you are being even more evil by playing this nonsensical game, being couth, and trying to remove from the English language the word for claiming God does not exist to cover up your deplorable condition when that is not what you believe anyhow since you're really an agnostic. Trying to make atheism actually agnosticism is like Satan trying to change the times and the ways. Perhaps you feel we are unable to attack you with the truth by getting ride of the word in the English language that says God does not exist. You're just sugar-coating atheism. You'll have to come up with a new word for the fact you have no faith in any God, but you still are atheist; that is, you believe God does not exist. Unless of course, you are agnostic in which case you are not sure either way.

When you do "not have belief in the existence of any deity" this would be agnosticism not atheism, because agnosticism says one doesn't know either way so you are free to say you have no faith in the existence of any deity since you believe there is no evidence either way (though the evidence is there for all of us to see). Whereas atheists clearly claim they do not believe God exists. Common usage of a term can be wrong, for if you remove from the English language the word for claiming God does not exist then there is no word to describe your actual belief, thus you feel you can't be attacked with the truth. Clearly such antics are intellectual dishonesty and self-deception.

Abiogenesis

Regarding abiogenesis, we simply can't get it to work as you would expect for that which has no life can't create that which does. It has long been shown mathematically it is impossible. There has not been enough interatomic interactions in the history of the universe to bring it about. You are free not to have any problem with still believing in it, but that would be your fantasy life.

If man could create life, it would have taken our intelligence anyway to do so and still could not have come through interatomic interactions in through history of the universe. Either way you look at it, it proves God did it! Information does not come about by natural processes. It always requires a mind. The DNA code is organized information.
10-16-2010, 06:42 AM
Cephei

I think you misunderstood what atheism means. Atheism is not the stance that a God does definitely not exist, it is simply the lack of belief in one. In fact, it says nothing about knowledge of a God's existence at all. One can be an agnostic atheist, where you lack belief, but you don't claim to have absolute knowledge, or you could be a gnostic atheist and be completely sure that there is no God.

(A)gnosticism deals with knowledge, while (a)theism deals with belief.
10-16-2010, 02:36 PM
Parture

As was said in the first post, you've removed from the English language and all dictionaries the word for claiming God does not exist. That's unethical. Every dictionary gives this definition: "the doctrine or belief that there is no God". This is usually the primary definition, but over the years atheists have tried to change the definition to take the focus off of their evil belief. You're free to do that if you like, but just remember the primary definition is not going away. When we call someone an atheist it is because they believe God does not exist (belief).So based on the primary definition of atheism, "agnostic atheism" is a contradiction and by the definition you hold, you're actually an agnostic. You are agnostic because you have a "lack of belief". Calling yourself atheist is deceitful.

The dictionary definition for agnosticism is: "an intellectual doctrine or attitude affirming the uncertainty of all claims to ultimate knowledge". In simple terms, an agnostic is someone who is not sure either way. Agnosticism alone is a contradiction as well, because it claims we cannot have certain knowledge yet it is asserting with certain knowledge with cannot know.

Atheism deals with belief, the belief that God does not exist. Agnosticism deals with the claim one is not be sure based on what they perceive to be evidence. And you said "gnostic atheism" which is also a contradiction, because gnostics believe God exists, so they can't be atheists.

You failed in your reply to deal with the fact you have removed the primary definition of atheism from all dictionaries. Think of yourself like Satan trying to change the times and the ways.

When you really think about it you are repeating yourself. You're saying you have a lack of belief because you have a lack of belief. You don't need two different words for that. You can just call yourself an "agnostic agnostic" so your lack of belief is due to your being agnostic, but you are not atheist, because you don't claim you believe God does not exist. You actually concede that you believe in God because gnosticism teaches the belief we were created by an evil god.
11-15-2010, 04:41 PM
mcmadbat

Those are just words people use to classify themselves. Its similar in the punk scene, pop-punk itself is suppostly contradictary, punk can not be popular is what some people said, so pop punk can't exist! But it does because punk is a musical style and pop is popular. Similar thing with agnostic atheism. I call myself an agnostic atheist because I do not see sufficient evidence that any god exists, but I know that god can technically exist but it's unknowable for sure. For example , a self aware organism can create a universe from another universe , thus god exists. But we can not test that as we are in this universe , and god is in another one. We can not interact. I can also be atheist because I do not believe that any current religion is real.
11-15-2010, 06:45 PM
Parture

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcmadbat

Those are just words people use to classify themselves. Its similar in the punk scene, pop-punk itself is suppostly contradictary, punk can not be popular is what some people said, so pop punk can't exist! But it does because punk is a musical style and pop is popular. Similar thing with agnostic atheism. I call myself an agnostic atheist because I do not see sufficient evidence that any god exists, but I know that god can technically exist but it's unknowable for sure. For example , a self aware organism can create a universe from another universe , thus god exists. But we can not test that as we are in this universe , and god is in another one. We can not interact. I can also be atheist because I do not believe that any current religion is real.

There really is a word in the English language for one who claims to believe God does not exist. That word traditionally has always been atheist. Atheists try to change the meaning so there is not a single word in the language to claim God does not exist which is quite unethical.

It's illogical to say "it's unknowable for sure." How do you know that for sure? How pompous! How is it that you know for sure you can't know for sure God exists, yet you can be sure about your theory? Where's the evidence? Atheists hate evidence because it blows their theory out the window as the evidence is already in and solid. Since you can't overturn the evidence the universe can't always have existed or start up from nothing, and you can't find a naturalistic explanation for the origin of the disciples' beliefs, realize you are conceding not only God exists but that Jesus is God.

Why can't pop-punk exist? It can have elements from both. That you are unsure whether God exists or not is called agnosticism whether you think you can know for sure or not. Your analogy failed. If you are agnostic then you can't be atheist because atheists say God does not exist, whereas agnostics don't say God does not exist, but that they are not sure.

The reason you contradict yourself so openly is because your brain is messed up, confused and hostile to reality. Every time you speak I can see you are having a tantrum.

I should also say we know God is not in nature (e.g. another universe) as His ultimate domain since we proved that He exists outside of time and space. We don't need to care if there are other universes, because even if there are, the principle still holds, you would have happened already, having had an eternity to do so if there was infinite regress. I wouldn't be like you and assume self-aware beings can create a universe other than God. Where's your evidence? I wouldn't worry about if there is another universe or not, for God interacted with us and showed His Son created the universe. Here is concerned with here and now! Let us be Christlike. Why go off into fantasy life? Deal with reality here and now.

Of course we know we exist in this universe and not some other universe. I think therefore I am. I see I am here therefore I am here (in this universe).
11-15-2010, 07:48 PM
mcmadbat

recap Atheism=don't believe in any man-made god agnostic=accepts that we can not know for sure whether a god exists. So together we get someone who doesn't believe in any current religions, but keeps an open mind that it is techincally possible that someone created the universe.

I do not throw tandrums as I am a big boy now ;). But in all seriousness I'm not the one that is saying,YOURE WRONG, IM RIGHT, MY GOD IS MORE REAL THAN YOUR GOD, YOU'RE ALL GONNA BURN IN HELL WHILE I GO TO HEAVEN. No atheists don;t do that. We quite frankly don't care if you waste your life prasing a non existing god. your choice, thats why we separate the church and state so religion don't affect polictical decisions.

pop music isn't a specific genre, it is what is popular. pop music is classical music 300 years back , now its rap , hip hop and dance music. pop means popular. A punk band is traditionally thought to be underground but some bands manage to become popular, thus creating a contradiction.

Things can be unknowable for sure, infact what happens in a black hole is unknowable. because after crossing the event horizon, no outside observer can observe the inside. So for all we know( i know impossible but just an example) that we have hitler having a tea party in there. We can not know for sure because we can't oberserver it. Unoberservable things can only be studied by theories. God isn't a theory as it isn't based on findings and known laws of physics.

My brains are messed up? I think that remark isn't from a calm person, you do not see me calling you delusional or retarded for believing in god. I ask the same from you that we do not go around insulting each other based on our opinions. Instead let's have real conversation about religion.

P.s. you have proved nothing so far, all your arguments were god is all powerful and god is all knowing. I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the bible that says god operates outside of spacrtime which means that you assumed that. When you assume too much, you arrive at a completly different answer.
11-15-2010, 09:25 PM
Parture

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcmadbat

recap Atheism=don't believe in any man-made god agnostic=accepts that we can not know for sure whether a god exists. So together we get someone who doesn't believe in any current religions, but keeps an open mind that it is techincally possible that someone created the universe.

Atheism is not the belief in any man-made God but rather, but claiming the non-existence of very God - the uncreated Creator. Agnosticism is not claiming you cannot know for sure but that currently they don't feel they have enough evidence either way.

You do not have an open mind by claiming God does not exist (Atheism) while at the same time claiming you are not sure (Agnosticism). You can't claim God does not exist if you are not sure. Why be dumb unless you take after your father Satan?

Quote:

I do not throw tandrums as I am a big boy now ;). But in all seriousness I'm not the one that is saying,YOURE WRONG, IM RIGHT, MY GOD IS MORE REAL THAN YOUR GOD, YOU'RE ALL GONNA BURN IN HELL WHILE I GO TO HEAVEN. No atheists don;t do that. We quite frankly don't care if you waste your life prasing a non existing god. your choice, thats why we separate the church and state so religion don't affect polictical decisions.

You are having a tantrum because the evidence is in of trillions of cause in nature and you can't find a naturalistic explanation for the origin of the disciples' beliefs, yet still deny God's existence. That's crazy. So surely, you are going to Hell because you reject the solution to your sin problem. We do care for you that you not keep loving the world and Satan who is the god of this world, for there is nothing worse than going to Hell where you are going. We have compassion and empathy for you though you admit you don't have for us. What love is that?

The reason why the Bible says to keep state and church separated is because God doesn't want the Church corrupted by the state. Almost every politician is corrupted. God treats the body of Christ as a little flock and a sojourner passing through this present world of evil that you favor so much. But when Jesus returns we who are in Christ who "overcometh" will reign over the nations (Rev. 2.26). There is nothing you can do to stop this from happening. It's ordained by God. God always wins. You have already lost by what was accomplished on the cross nearly 2000 years ago giving Satan your father a deadly wound (1st seal).

Quote:

pop music isn't a specific genre, it is what is popular. pop music is classical music 300 years back , now its rap , hip hop and dance music. pop means popular. A punk band is traditionally thought to be underground but some bands manage to become popular, thus creating a contradiction.

It's not a contradiction, what was not popular before can be popular now. You're not too bright are you?

Quote:

Things can be unknowable for sure, infact what happens in a black hole is unknowable. because after crossing the event horizon, no outside observer can observe the inside. So for all we know( i know impossible but just an example) that we have hitler having a tea party in there. We can not know for sure because we can't oberserver it. Unoberservable things can only be studied by theories. God isn't a theory as it isn't based on findings and known laws of physics.

The known laws of physics prove not only that God exists but whom God is in Christ, since nature can't always have existed or start up from nothing, and you can't find a naturalistic explanation for the origin of the disciples' beliefs. By your failure, you prove Jesus is God and that you are going to Hell since you refuse His saving grace.

Quote:

My brains are messed up? I think that remark isn't from a calm person, you do not see me calling you delusional or retarded for believing in god. I ask the same from you that we do not go around insulting each other based on our opinions. Instead let's have real conversation about religion.

The very condition of your mind is delusional. Where did I call you retarded? I don't believe your IQ is below 90 though it might close to it. Recognizing you are delusional needs be established at the outset to accurately reflect your actual conditional. It naturally follows you are delusional since you don't deal with the data yet remain as you are. You keep circumventing it. We all need religion for without it life would not exist. The question is which religion: only the atoning sacrifice of Christ wins the day by solving the the problem.

Quote:

P.s. you have proved nothing so far, all your arguments were god is all powerful and god is all knowing. I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the bible that says god operates outside of spacrtime which means that you assumed that. When you assume too much, you arrive at a completly different answer.

Saying it is not proven is not a valid disproof. You would need to overturn something can't come from nothing and how we would not have existed already having had an eternity to do so. You would also need to find a naturalistic explanation for the origin of the disciples' beliefs.

Since you fail on all these fronts, it's clear you lost.

Yes, the Bible teaches God exists outside of time and space because the Bible says nothing exists without Him having created it. That includes time and space. He says before Him there is no God, nor beside Him or after Him. He also says He was "alone...from everlasting." Not sure how God can be any more clear to the point. You're just shutting your mind down. You assume falsely.

Where do these delusional beliefs of yours come from? They come from your dead spirit to God, independency and hostility to your Creator. It's easy to see if you just open your eyes.