Chuck Missler is Deceived

Chuck Missler is going to be deceived when the Tribulation comes because he said, "The Holy Spirit will not indwell believers during the Tribulation." Do you realize how evil that is to make that claim? It's pompous, pride-filled and regressive. A person receives Christ, his spirit is regenerated, he is given eternal life but God's Spirit can't indwell in him? That's demonic. There are consequences to this evil teaching. Obviously, you can see Chuck is rationalizing his flesh, because if he was discerning, he would realize how weird that sounds.

When Chuck Missler enters the Tribulation he is going to notice 2 or 3 million people vanished. He will consider this a "fake rapture" because if it was the true rapture he assumes he would be included. He is antinomian, thus he does not consider the first rapture according to readiness. So there Church Missler is in the Tribulation, telling people it is not the Tribulation and that Satan has produced a fake rapture. He keeps accusing the brethren day and night (Rev. 12.10). Think of the judgment that is going to come upon Chuck Missler.

Chuck also said that "Israel is going to replace the Church" because he thinks the Church is going to be removed before the Tribulation. This is a strange kind of replacement theology. Chuck is anti-semetic because he raptures the whole Church before the Tribulation and puts it all on the Jews.

He also said, "the 5 unwise virgins need to fill up with oil by using the mark of the beast." What? The 5 unwise virgins are carnal Christians that's why they don't fill up with the Holy Spirit, so they shall lose the reward of reigning with Christ for 1000 years - the marriage feast.

Study these verses carefully...

Attachment 167Attachment 168

Chuck Missler thinks the 7 lamp stands in Rev. 1 to the 7 churches are the same 7 lamps in Rev. 4: "seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God" (v.5). The 7 churches are not God's Spirit.

He considers those in Rev. 5.9,10 to be the redeemed when most Bible versions disagree with the KJV's rendering of "us". "Them" is accurate, thus it is the 24 archangels praising God's redeemed, not the redeemed praising themselves. And the angels take up the prayers of the saints in Rev. 5. The saints don't take up their own prayers. That makes no sense. "Having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints" (v.8).

Chuck resorts to lying. He says, "all but one of 50 manuscripts use 'us'." All the main versions I read refer to "people" or "men" in Rev. 5.9: "people" (NLT), "men" (NIV), "people" (ESV), "men" (NASB), "men" (RSV), "men" (ASV).

Verse 10 uses "them" (NLT), "them" (NIV), "them" (ESV), "them" (NASB), "them" (RSV), "them" (ASV).

How can the Church be in heaven when it is not even raptured yet "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9)? Surely a vision in John's spirit does not constitute the rapture. Paul was not raptured when he was taken up to 3rd heaven.

In praying about how to help Chuck Missler, the Holy Spirit revealed to me that if you can show Chuck that the 24 Elders can't be the Church and that there is no rapture in Rev. 4, 5 and 6, not till Rev. 7.9, then Chuck would have to change his theory. Nobody I know of has presented a better case than Watchman Nee for Revelation chapters 4 & 5 so get reading,

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Revelation_4.htm

Another thing Chuck gets wrong is he thinks the Thyatira church is the medieval church. Specifically, it is the Roman Church since it is still with us today. The last four churches are all with us still today. The first three have passed. The Medieval church is not existing today, but the Roman Church is. He also gets the Sardis church wrong because he calls it the Missionary church. The Sardis church is a Revival church like always filling the glass with less water each time after emptying it; these revivals are less and less effective and some are downright wrong! Again, Watchman Nee proves this as well which I totally agree in Revelation 2 & 3,

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/7churches.htm

Chuck even admits the last 4 are unique in this regard that they still remain with us, but where does the Medieval church still exist? Where are people being thrown into evil contraptions being tortured in Christendom? How could you even say the Medieval church is the body of Christ anyway? Makes no sense.

Chuck tripped up when talking about the Temple, because for him it is not a condition before the first rapture in his imminency teaching, but if it takes 3.5 years to build, it would have to start being built before the Tribulation starts because the False Prophet erects an idol of the Antichrist in the Temple 1260 days after the Tribulation starts. Recall Chuck says imminency has no pre-condition, but who says imminency is a correct teaching? None of the verses he give support. He just assumes into the text. There is no imminency because the Temple at least has to be partially built by the first rapture. In fact, we know the Temple must be completed with 2300 days left into the Tribulation which would be by the 220th day from the start of the Tribulation since the Tribulation is 2,520 days long.

I love how a great man like Chuck Missler can't see this and yet little old me can. Thank you Jesus. "And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed" (Dan. 8.14). How can the sanctuary, the Temple, be cleansed if it is not completely built? 2300 days from the end of the Tribulation (Tisha B'Av, Aug. 7, 2022) going backward in time is day before passover in 2016. 220 days from the start of the Tribulation Sept. 14, 2015 is the 3rd day of the 4 day inspection of the Lamb and Red Heifer on April 20, 2016.

Obviously, therefore the first rapture cannot occur until at least the Temple construction has been going on for at least 2 to 3 years, assuming it takes 3.5 years to build. Chuck tries to get around this by saying the first rapture could occur decades before the Tribulation. Again, he is really rationalizing his flesh when he does that. I don't know any scholars who would even touch that nonsense. At least he knows he has to rationalize his idea by bringing in weird teachings. Or I hope he realizes that at some point.

When Chuck, sadly, is in the Tribulation he will see 2 or 3 million missing and accuse them of being Satan's "fake rapture", because Chuckster rejects Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10 which say in order to escape the hour of trial that is to come upon the whole world, you would need to be watchful, prayerful, and keep the word of His patience, not just because you are in the Church. Let us not be antinomians like Chucky.

First rapture is at Rev. 7.9 "before the throne" before the first trumpet of the Tribulation (8.7ff). Not before! And it is not a forgone conclusion, but it is according to readiness. Amen.

Just a quick 2 cents about pre-trib, I don't want to start throwing scriptures back and forth.

In the days of moses, all of the jews were spared by the plagues brought upon Egypt.


During the tribulation, if God is pouring out His wrath on the earth, then why would believers of God and having been saved by His son have to endure these things, which are far worse.

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Originally Posted by jcloy

Just a quick 2 cents about pre-trib, I don't want to start throwing scriptures back and forth. In the days of moses, all of the jews were spared by the plagues brought upon Egypt. During the tribulation, if God is pouring out His wrath on the earth, then why would believers of God and having been saved by His son have to endure these things, which are far worse.

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You think the suffering of the saints will be far worse in the Tribulation? Not even in the Tribulation will all first-borns be lost. Christians in the 3rd century were thrown to the lions. That is far worse to be torn to shreds by the teeth of lions. It's a horrific way to die. "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life" (Rev. 2.10). Why are there martyrs in Christ? Because of sin and evil men in the world. Jesus said as He was treated so will we be.

You don't think Israel endured suffering? They all died, never seeing the promise land. They went through their own tribulation period. Sure they escaped the plagues as the saints won't die in the first half of the Tribulation, but they all died eventually. Only those like an Enoch or Elijah who are overcomers will be raptured before the Tribulation. The rest will pass through the tribulation like Noah just as the Apostles endured tribultion. You think our suffering if we are in the Tribulation is going to be worse than what Jesus and the Apostles experienced? Are you sure you don't want to retract that?

It would help for you to understand what the rapture is and what it is not. It is not to avoid affliction. But it is the pinnacle. 6000 years as days x 24 hours a day is 144,000. This number represents the pinnacle reached so that Rev. 14.1-5 and other overcomers who are alive at the first rapture will be taken up "before the throne" (7.9) because they keep the word of His patience (3.10), were watchful (Matt. 24.40-42) and prayerful (Luke 21.36) to escape all these things that are to come upon the whole world, avoiding the hour of trial. First rapture is conditional. These are conditional statements. There are advanced parties and harbingers in every sphere.

Once the first rapture takes place, Satan knows his time is short so after the peace treaty of 7 years, as the Restrainer he unrestrains Nero Antichrist (Rev. 9.1) from the pit to break the 7 year covenant peace treaty between Israel and Islam. Nobody is hurt in the first 5 months of the Great Tribulation (1st woe), but in the 2nd woe (13 months) many will die then even more in the 3rd woe. Before the 3rd woe though, we see the saints in heaven at Rev. 11.15 before the 7th trumpet containing the 7 bowls of wrath. The bowls are God's wrath specifically. Before the bowls those who are "alive" and "left" (1 Thess. 4.17) are taken to the air. Those alive obviously are left, so what is meant by "left" is those who were not raptured at the first rapture are left to pass through the Tribulation and if alive at the last trumpet will not see death, but be raptured alive at the last trumpet with those who are asleep.

So the Tribulation saints in the general rapture and resurrection will avoid the 24 months of the 7 bowls (3rd woe or 7th trumpet), but they will not escape trumpets one through six. They were not accounted worthy to be raptured up at the first rapture because they love the world too much, tied down to it like a balloon unwilling to be released.

Some observers ask, is it not rather cruel to take away hope from the church? To which we must answer that in the Scriptures there is no such false hope given; and therefore it is better to alert people to this fact. If you think just because you are born-again, a member of the body of Christ, that no matter what you do from here on out that you will be raptured at the first rapture, think again! My only warning to you is since you exclude yourself from the first rapture, because you don't treat it according to readiness but as a forgone conclusion, please don't be like Satan accusing the brethren day and night (Rev. 12.10 when you discover in the news perhaps 2 or 3 million vanished across the globe on Sept. 14, 2015. The Tribulation is from Sept. 14, 2015, Feast of Trumpets to Aug. 7, 2022, Tisha B'Av.

Hope that helps.

I said I don't want to throw verses around because everything can be proved to one's own point of view.
Example

your wrote "behold, the devil shall cast some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life" (Rev. 2.10)" to prove your point.

You have taken this verse out of context to prove your point, so you left out the previous verse which tells you who he is referring to do it, to the church of symrna.
"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but the synagogue of Satan."
So now we know he's not talking to the masses but to the church.

So now I can rebutly that by also using a verse that's also out of context.

since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.(Revelation 3:10).

Written for the church of Philadelphia.

This is why I didn't want scriptures, because people like to flex there ability to Google versus.

And no, I don't want to retract that statement, and as far as how horrible things were that happen to people and read what you wrote..notice that these things happened only once to those individual, so I would much rather be eaten once by a lion than have to live through 7 vials of Gods wrath poured on the us.

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Originally Posted by jcloy

your wrote "behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life" (Rev. 2.10)" to prove your point.

You have taken this verse out of context to prove your point, so you left out the previous verse which tells you who he is referring to do it, to the church of symrna.

"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but the synagogue of Satan."

So now we know he's not talking to the masses but to the church.

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You thought I was referring to the masses? I was referring to the Smyrna church which represents the 3rd century heavily martyred church. Didn't you realize that?

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So now I can rebutly that by also using a verse that's also out of context.

since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.(Revelation 3:10).

Written for the church of Philadelphia.

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I don't know any scholar who would think these messages are isolated to only those specific churches so they have no relevance to other churches or church periods. While it is true they are being spoken to those specific churches and church period they represent, there is application to all Christians of all time. Therefore like Luke 21.36 and Matt. 24.40-42, those in Christ who keep the word of His patience, are prayerful and watchful will escape the hour of trial that is to come upon the whole world (the Tribulation). There are Christians who are martyred in the Tribulation so they shall certainly be tried also since they were not ready to be received at the first rapture.

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And no, I don't want to retract that statement, and as far as how horrible things were that happen to people and read what you wrote..notice that these things happened only once to those individual, so I would much rather be eaten once by a lion than have to live through 7 vials of Gods wrath poured on the us.

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You should retract that statement because even if you are martyred in the Tribulation, you won't be killed by being eaten to death by a lion or hung upside down on a cross with nails through your hands and feet like Peter. Nor will you likely be jailed for the rest of your life like Watchman Nee was for the last 20 years of your life as the most famous Christian in Chinese church history.

Your argument also fails because there are no deaths in the first four trumpets, the first half of the Tribulation. There are no deaths even in the 5th trumpet of 5 months, and it appears even possibly the bulk of the deaths will be in the 7th trumpet (7 bowls), not even in the 13 months of the 6th trumpet. I would rather suffer with Israel for 40 years before walking into the promise land or working on the ark for 120 years with Noah or passing through the flood with Noah than to be eaten by a lion. I would rather be in jail for the rest of my life than be nailed to a cross. You make Jesus' death less significant. Death of his saints is no blessing in God's eyes. Death is no blessing! But you seem to welcome death. Don't give into Satan's wish for you. Don't give into a desire for quick death. Jesus said He never came to take you out of the world or to bring you to death. This is not His will for you or anyone.

Apparently you didn't read what I wrote when I said the general rapture and resurrection is before the 7 bowls of wrath which last 24 months, so why argue that as Christians we would pass through the 7th trumpet? You're arguing on another hill I am not on. To deal with what I said you will need to come up to the hill I am standing on and deal with what I said. In so doing then you show you are being conscientious.

The Holy Spirit told me your main problem is that you are a "gibberish babbler" that you replace the Holy Spirit with according to your profile, and this passivity opens you up to the evil spirit to find strongholds to latch onto in your mind in your false beliefs and life by feelings not by faith.

I just wrote a whole argue back to you, but then my holy spirit came to me and I realized how I'm on a christian website reading a post from someone telling me what kind of person I am and that I'm dealing with someone who takes to much pride and boast in what knowledge they have gained, and I was told to remember that satans fall came from pride.
So I will swallow mine, say Kudos, and call truce.

P.s The profile are things I study, I study these specific things because of subjects in the Bible that make me ask "why is that" and "what does that mean", Gods says "I make peace and I create evil. (Isaiah 45:7) Gods peace and love I heard and know, so now I feel the need to learn about the other side, which I was originally pulled towards after reading Deuteronomy 28, and finding out why the great flood really happened, which led me to the book of Enoch which led me to study fallen angels, nephilims, ufo's, aliens,etc.

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Originally Posted by jcloy

I just wrote a whole argue back to you, but then my holy spirit came to me and I realized how I'm on a christian website reading a post from someone telling me what kind of person I am and that I'm dealing with someone who takes to much pride and boast in what knowledge they have gained, and I was told to remember that satans fall came from pride. So I will swallow mine, say Kudos, and call truce.

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I've never heard of a Christian who confused his spirit with the Holy Spirit by calling his own spirit the "holy spirit". Christians also almost always capitalize Christian but you do not. Satan is called the great accuser. Sounds like you are accusing like the Devil sinning bearing false witness, because of your own flesh priding yourself you are going to be raptured before the Tribulation, thus violating the conditional statements found in Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36 and Rev. 3.10 that you have thusfar avoided dealing with. You accuse this as being knowledge!? It's God's word. Why be offended by God's word? Be concerned with your own behavior that you avoid dealing with these verses which clearly show conditional statements for the first rapture.

I guess that's just the kind of person you are to avoid. Think what might happened when you notice a couple million vanished. In your pride and self-exaltation, you'll think to yourself these can't be the saints because surely if they were you would be included. Perhaps you will call it a "fake rapture", accusing the brethren day and night (Rev. 12.10), and you won't even recognize it as the Tribulation, so you will take the mark of the beast, thus showing you were never born-again to begin with. I would not want to be in your shoes with this attitude you have. Have you asked yourself why you are so attracted to evil?

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The profile are things I study, I study these specific things because of subjects in the Bible that make me ask "why is that" and "what does that mean", Gods says "I make peace and I create evil. (Isaiah 45:7) Gods peace and love I heard and know, so now I feel the need to learn about the other side, which I was originally pulled towards after reading Deuteronomy 28, and finding out why the great flood really happened, which led me to the book of Enoch which led me to study fallen angels, nephilims, ufo's, aliens,etc.

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The book of Enoch is of course false, was never written by Enoch, so it wouldn't be the Holy Spirit but your evil spirit that is guiding you. You're avoiding the above false teaching and now jumping onto another false teaching, and you think that is of God? What God considers evil other people call holy. The Bible is clear why the flood happened. It gives the reason. You don't need to go to the book of Enoch to find out, for it is speculation as well as false teaching mixed in. For example, there is no angel named Phanuel who is set over us when we are born-again. It tries to replace Jesus Christ.

Looks like you have gone down the path of Chuck Missler. All you need to know about the Nephilim and other false manifestations is what the word of God has to say. The deepest Christian writer that I know of on this subject is Watchman Nee who wrote clearly and concisely, not overextending himself as you find in Chuck Missler who actually thinks there are actual UFOs and aliens. It would take 70,000 years at current speeds to get to the nearest planet, and fallen angels and demons do not manifest themselves as UFOs or aliens, so you can forget that nonsense. What the evil spirit will do is plant ideas in your brain to misconstrue some object or to hallucinate. I highly recommend you read Nee before you venture off into your alien, UFO, book of Enoch and Nephilim quest so you have the right perspective.

Mystery of Creation http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/mystery.htm
Latent Power of the Soul http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/laten...f_the_soul.htm

I can't stress enough the error of your ways of misreading God's word about when the raptures take place and your venturing off into the occult of the book of Enoch. Just know you can reverse course now and be sure about the questions in your profile to know that each person of the Godhead is distinct; that there are overcomers and non-overcomers in Christ; that man does have a spirit, soul and body; that water is figurative or can be done literally in baptism; that gibberish babble is passivity, mediums and psychics opening you up to suggestions from evil spirits; that as the disciples did lay on hands so this is not something to fear; that Mary was born into sin and women can be apostles; and Apostles appoint Elders of a locality. Amen.

Is it not better to read God's word carefully and deeply before you do apologetic work against the book of Enoch?

The Fallen Angels and Demons
Mystery of Creation, CFP, 29-34, Watchman Nee

We have now seen the origin of Satan. What about the angels under him and the demons? How did their fall affect the earth and help to turn it into waste and void?

From the New Testament we can trace two orders of Satan’s subjects: (1) the angels, (2) the demons. Let us look at the angels first. “Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matt. 25.41). “And his [the dragon’s] tail draweth the third part of the stars of heaven” (Rev. 12.4). The “stars” here refer to the angels (cf. Rev. 1.20). The passage continues later with these words: “And the great dragon was cast down, the old serpent, he that is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world; he was cast down to the earth, and his angels were cast down with him” (v.9). These angels must be those spirits whom God had set in the beginning to assist the archangel to rule the world. They are “the gods” in Psalm 82.1 (cf. John 10.35). Now at the fall of Lucifer, these probably conspired with him—at least they were in sympathy with him. And so they fell into sin with Satan and have now become the principalities, the powers, the world rulers of this darkness, and the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenlies (Eph. 6.12). These angels are not disembodied demons. They have instead an ethereal body, for the Lord reveals to us the fact that in resurrection people will be as angels in heaven.

Satan has another order of subjects. These are the evil spirits or the demons. “When even was come, they brought unto him [Christ] many possessed with demons: and he cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all that were sick” (Matt. 8.16). Here the Holy Spirit uses these two words “demons” and “spirits” synonymously. Likewise in Luke 10.17,20: “And the seventy returned with joy, saying, Lord, even the demons are subject to us in thy name”; and the Lord answered as follows: “Nevertheless in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.” Here the Lord Jesus considers “demons” and “spirits” to be the same. Again, Matthew 17.18 records how the Lord cast “the demon” out of a boy. Concerning the same incident, Mark refers to the demon as “the unclean spirit,” a “dumb and deaf spirit” (9.25).

These demons or spirits probably were a preadamic race who inhabited the former world. They either assisted Satan in rebellion or else they followed him afterwards. And thus they were destroyed by God by their being disembodied. These beings have consequently become disembodied spirits. Though there is no plain evidence in the Scriptures, we can still find some hints in the Bible. For instance, in Matthew 12 there is the situation of such a spirit after it had left a human body: it “passeth through waterless places, seeking rest, and findeth it not” (12.43). It became helpless and, wandering far outside the human body, it could find no rest. Finally, it was compelled to re-enter the original place—the human body. If these beings are not in fact disembodied spirits, why must they enter a human body? Furthermore, in Luke 8 we read how unwilling the demon called Legion was to leave the human body. When they (those of the Legion) were pressed, they preferred to enter the bodies of the swine. These demons are different from Satan and his fallen angels because the latter have no desire to enter human bodies since they still retain their own ethereal bodies. The demons, on the other hand, are different. Both their character and desire seem to prove that they are indeed disembodied spirits. If that be true, though, when were they disembodied? We know that the spirits of the dead today are either in Paradise or in Hades. Where, then, came these spirits? They must have come from the former world. When they were living, their dwelling place must have been the world which Satan formerly governed.

That there were inhabitants in the former world can be deduced from another passage in the Scriptures. We have already pointed out from Isaiah 45.18 that the world—that is to say, the former world—was not created a waste but was formed to be inhabited. This seems to imply that there were inhabitants in the earth of old.

As we study the Bible further we discover even more information regarding this matter. There is a place of detention for evil spirits today. The spirits called Legion who were among the Gerasene demoniacs knew about this place. This was why they were so terrified as to entreat the Lord “not [to] command them to depart into the abyss” (Luke 8.31).

Regarding the abyss, Pember wrote: “It is called the abyss; and in some passages, such as the ninth chapter of the Apocalypse, this term is evidently applied to a fiery hollow in the centre of the earth: but it is also used for the depths of the sea, a meaning which accords well with its derivation.”* The book of Revelation informs us that one day Satan will be cast into this abyss (20.3). Evidently some of the demons are now imprisoned there, but some of them are still free, waiting for the appropriate time when they too will be shut in there. This abyss is most likely in the sea, not in the center of the earth. And at the time of the final judgment (see Rev. 20.11-15), all the prisoners will be cast into the lake of fire, and in the New Heaven and the New Earth there will be no more sea (Rev. 21.1). Probably there is only one abyss, but it is scattered in two places—at the center of the earth and in the depth of the sea.

*G. H. Pember, op. cit., p. 60.

We have even more allusion in the Scriptures to this detention center of the demons. According to the Greek Septuagint of the Old Testament the word “deep” in Genesis 1.2 is the same as the word “abyss” here in the Greek New Testament. We have already mentioned how these demons were probably the preadamic race who inhabited the former world. In reading Genesis 1.2 it looks quite reasonable to us that those who originally inhabited the earth had their bodies destroyed by God because of their sins, and the place in which they dwelt was also judged by God by being turned into waste and a void so that the whole earth was covered with water and became a deep sea. How natural it would be for the spirits of those former inhabitants to be shut into the depth of this sea! Later on, when God restored the earth on the third day, He commanded the land to appear out of the waters, and called the gathering together of the waters the Seas. This dry land, the earth, was ready for men of the new world.

Where then did these demons go? Naturally our answer would be, these demons were left with the sea. When we read Revelation 20.13 (“And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them”) we understand how death and Hades will give up the dead, but we are often puzzled at how the sea will give up the dead in it. The common interpretation is that the sea will yield up the bodies of all who were drowned. Yet if that be so, the earth must also yield up its dead since more bodies will have been buried in the earth than in the sea. The earth, however, will not give up the dead. Consequently, what the sea will yield up cannot be the bodies of the dead people but the spirits already shut within it. Human souls are kept in death and Hades. The Bible never suggests that human souls are kept in the sea. Thus who can be the dead given up by the sea except those who belonged to the former world? The order here is quite revealing: “And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them.” Those inhabitants of the former world died first, therefore they shall be delivered up first. People of our present world will follow next since all shall be judged in order of time.

We have briefly touched on the origin of Satan, his angels, and these demons. As to how the preadamic race lived on the former earth, this seems to be beyond our knowledge. Yet we can obtain some understanding through a few intimations in the Scriptures. Many Bible scholars, including C. I. Scofield, believe that Jeremiah 4.23-26 refers to the conditions of the waste and void cited in Genesis 1.2. Although what precedes and what follows speak of the desolations of Judah, these verses appear to take on a broader cast in that it seems that God showed His prophet the desolations of the original earth. If our interpretation is correct, then we know from this passage that there were “fruitful fields” and “cities” (v.26) in the former world. The early settlers dwelt in cities and cultivated the fields. The fierce anger of the Lord came upon them and upon the entire earth because of their rebellion with Satan. And thus the earth became waste and void.

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Originally Posted by jcloy

your really going to sit in front of your computer and categorize what type of christian one is by their punctuation, be a little more desperate for your quest to find an insult. So dude get off it. yes MY Holy Spirit because it's my own relationship with the trinity, yes angels can have sex, yes Enoch is true and it was Jude whom is Jesus' half brother that quotes him.

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I've never heard of a Christian call the 3rd Person of the Trinity "my holy spirit," for isn't the Holy Spirit given to all believers? What makes you think I think you are a "type" of Christian? The Holy Spirit told me that you are not born-again because you have replaced the Holy Spirit with "gibberish babble" of Pentecostalism and adding the book of Enoch to God's word. Did Chuck Missler teach you that also? You don't have to capitalize Christian if you don't want, but I am just saying that I have never met a Christian that irreverent before. The evil spirit in your spirit needs to makes you think you are being insulted so you can keep on being irreverent and misusing God's word as if you did nothing wrong.There are lots of trinities in the world, but there is only one Trinity.

Angels can't have sex. But demons can possess a body and through that possession when the person has sex deformities can occur (e.g. giants). Enoch is true but the book of Enoch is false. That you consider the book of Enoch Scripture shows yet again you are not a child of God, adding to God's word. Jude did quote Enoch, but that has nothing to do with the book of Enoch. You are obviously demonically possessed by the evil spirit of the book of Enoch. Study the many reasons why this book is wrong,

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/book_of_enoch.htm

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So now I'm just skimming through what your writing now because it starting to look like your just a "gibberish babbler"

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I am glad you can't show it. When I use the term "gibberish babble" I am referring to that noise inside or outside that Pentecostals make that is nonsensical and has no language or syntax to it.

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So your saying it wasn't Lucifer who tempted Eve but a spirit.

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Satan can tempt through suggestions, certainly, but he does not possess like demons can, so we know the serpent was possessed by a demon, therefore it was a demon under Satan's direction. Take the Antichrist for example. Satan himself doesn't possess the forerunner, but he gets the disembodied person of Neron Kaisar in the pit to possess the body of the forerunner which produces the Antichrist.

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I'm not even going to skim any more, that's twice that I have came upon were you have intentionally left out specific and crucial verses to arguments you trying to claim, so don't give me all your b.s. about what kind of Christian I must be.

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Left out what verse? You don't say. I can't help you if you don't specifically tell me what it is you are talking about. The Holy Spirit told me you are not born-again because you are gibberish babbler and adding the book of Enoch to God's word.

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Which makes since because each post you find one word I have written taken it out of context and tried to turn it around just like you have with these versus. For instance in the beginning I wrote,...."which is far worse"

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You haven't shown anything was taken out of context. Prove it.

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And you turned that into me inviting death and telling me what my definition a suffering must be, and that i'm in the ways of the devil and that I'm not really saved, and then into giving me your theory about the tribulation and goes as far to give me the actual date. etc.

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You said a quick death by a lion is better than the life you would have to live in the Tribulation, thus you prefer death because you are under possession. God cherishes life, so should you, so stop preferring death. That's suicidal! We know the actual date of the Tribulation. It is Sept. 14, 2015 to Aug. 7, 2022. The probability was in 1 in 70,000,000 this could be wrong, and you presented no challenge to it, but like Satan you keep accusing. Again, read the calculation. I don't know how to overturn it either. Since you outspokenly reject this time line you will miss it and succumb to it.

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/return_of_Jesus.htm

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you an antagonist, but that isn't what Christians are like, so that means your a hippocrate, that makes you luke warm because your not one way or the other, the Lord rebuke those who are luke warm, so turn away from your ways brother, don't be like the devil.

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Of course I am antagonistic towards your demonic possession by the evil spirit of gibberish babble and your desire to add to God's word using the book of Enoch. A Christian puts on the full armor of God and rejects you. A person is lukewarm because they stand up boldly against your evil teaching? I thought lukewarm meant a person sits on the fence and is ecumenical apparently like you since you don't engage the discussion about the timing of rapture and other matters? That's passivity. Passivity is how the evil spirit finds ground in your mind.

Your double tongue is obnoxious. First you say you are having some truce then you go and accuse of being like the devil and other name calling.

Nephilim
Ye Search the Scriptures, CFP, 149-156, Watchman Nee

To solve Bible difficulties several basic rules must be observed.

First, we must at the outset believe that the Bible itself has no difficulty. If there is any problem, it is due to our misunderstanding.

Second, we must not try to solve a Bible difficulty by only the local passage in question, for no Scripture is to be interpreted privately, that is, according to the local meaning by itself. Whenever a difficulty is encountered, study it with other Scripture passages before a judgment is made. Those difficult passages can never be in conflict with the teachings found in other passages of the Bible. In writing the Word, God does not forget what He has already written. If there seems to be any discrepancy it must be the fault of our own mentality.

Third, some words may not recur in other portions of the Scriptures. Even so, we ought to believe in them and never to disbelieve God’s word through our own prejudice and reasonings.

Fourth, in order to solve a difficulty we must search for evidence. Find evidences both from the Scriptures and from reason. Whatever God has spoken is most certainly full of teaching, for He will never say any unreasonable thing.

Fifth, by difficulty is meant either a difficulty in interpretation of Scripture or a difficulty in the matter of a teaching. (We do not view as being a difficulty any discrepancy concerning numbers that appear in the Bible. Such number discrepancies are due to errors made in copying. During the period of the church’s persecution, when Bibles were being destroyed, it was not an easy matter to make copies and so mistakes in copying were unavoidable. This, therefore, is not a problem involving inspiration. If anyone should use this to justify an attack on the Bible, his criticism is overblown.)

Now as one example, let us attempt to solve an Old Testament difficulty according to the above rules.

“The sons of God” in Genesis 6 bears a significant relationship to the second coming of the Lord Jesus. For “as it came to pass in the days of Noah,” said the Lord Jesus, “even so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man” (Luke 17.26). How were the days of Noah? The sons of God came in to the daughters of men. Many commentators interpret this affair as indicating that the sons of Seth married the daughters of Cain. But such an interpretation is forced.

When “the sons of God” married the daughters of men, they bore the Nephilim (i.e., the giants; the original meaning of Nephilim is “the fallen”). How could the sons of Seth (by this interpretation being “the sons of God”), in marrying the daughters of Cain, father giants? Seth was a human being, and so was Cain. How could the same kind of human beings beget a different type of men? Such an interpretation is bound to convey an unnatural cast to the affair.

Who, then, are “the sons of God”? Naturally the answer must especially be sought in the Old Testament. By searching, the evidence appears. We can safely conclude that “the sons of God” here point to the angels. We find some strong evidence in the book of Job. Job was written before the book of Genesis, for the latter was compiled during the time of Moses whereas the former was composed at the time of Abraham. Such a dating of these two books has been commonly accepted. The words employed in later Biblical writings usually follow those of the earlier writings. In Job 1, 2 and 38, the phrase “the sons of God” refers in all cases to the angels; so that quite naturally “the sons of God” in Genesis 6 must likewise have reference to the angels.

The Lord Jesus noted that “in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as angels in heaven” (Matt. 22.30). Yet this statement does not suggest that angels are not able to marry or to be given in marriage; the statement merely says that angels do not marry nor are given in marriage. God forbids the angels to marry for they are spirits. Nonetheless an unexpected thing happened; the most confusing of all things occurred in the time of Genesis 3, and that was that the Satanic spirit entered into a lower creature—the serpent. So that in Genesis we observe a union of the evil spirit with the lower creature. And in the time of Genesis 6 the evil spirit entered into a union with men. Angels ought not marry, nevertheless they married the daughters of men and begat the Nephilim. And when the Nephilim appeared on the earth, God decided to destroy them. God wants angels, He wants men, but He does not want the Nephilim; for He has not created such a species. All that He has made must be each after its kind. But out of the union of the devils and men came forth the Nephilim. God therefore severely judged them. Why, as a further example, did God decide to destroy the Anakim who appeared later on? Because they too were Nephilim.

Originally the Nephilim were destroyed in the flood, but later in the land of Canaan the Nephilim appeared again in the form of the Anakim. They too must be destroyed. For God will not allow such kind of creature to exist on the earth.

The passage in Jude 6—“And angels that kept not their own principality, but left their proper habitation”—like-wise refers to the marriage of the angels. Also, “angels when they sinned” (2 Peter 2.4) points to the same affair.

The passage in Genesis 6.3 is clear: “for that he [man] also is flesh.” What is meant here by the word “also”? It means the second time. For instance, You have eaten, but I also have eaten. This “also” means the second time. God says that man also is flesh, indicating that before man somebody else has first become flesh. Who, aside from man, can be spoken in such parallel fashion to man? None but the angel. Hence in saying that man also is flesh, it implies that the angels had already become flesh. With such evidence as this, we can assuredly conclude that “the sons of God” points to the angels.

Man indeed had sinned in Genesis 3, but the sinning in Genesis 3 and the becoming flesh in Genesis 6 are not the same. To sin is a matter of conduct, not a matter of nature; but to become flesh signifies that the whole being is now controlled by the flesh; so that it has become a matter of nature. We must pay attention to the subsequent development of man’s sin besides the original fall of man recorded in Genesis 3. For Adam it is a sinful act, for Cain it has become a lust, and by the time of the flood, sin has developed so quickly that man has become flesh; that is, sinning has now become a habit. Ever since man had first sinned, the Spirit of God had always striven with him until he became flesh. The words, “My Spirit shall not strive with man for ever”, show that from the Garden of Eden until the flood the Spirit of God had been striving with man. Yet when man became so licentious as to become flesh, God’s Spirit ceased to strive any longer.

Why should we notice this matter? Because the Bible has declared: “And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man” (Matt. 24.37). This problem must therefore be solved. It is possible that before the coming of the Son of man the evil spirit of Satan will come to the earth, and sinful angels will at that time clothe themselves with flesh. These “sons of God” are always a problem; consequently God must judge them severely. The judgment of the flood is without precedent; the judgment of the land of Canaan is also exceedingly stern; and at the coming of the Son of man there will come a great judgment. The Lord will judge the angels who fail to keep their original state.

Are those angels who have left their original state included in the third part (see Rev. 12.4) or not? Probably they are outside the third part of the angelic hosts who rebelled [that is, they are the demons, the disembodied spirits]. “And angels that kept not their own principality, but left their proper habitation” (Jude 6). The word “principality” is translated by Darby as “original state”. It means more than a position, it also signifies an original condition. The original condition of angels is neither marrying nor giving in marriage. To say “kept not their original state” means to say that they lost it through marriage. “Original state” refers to their condition, while “habitation” points to their dwelling. What has happened to these angels? Jude 6 continues with: “He [the Lord] hath kept [them] in everlasting bonds under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.” Now the first word—“even”—in verse 7 is not to be found in the original Greek text, for verse 7 and verse 6 do not refer to two different matters; rather, verse 7 explains verse 6. Both J. N. Darby’s translation and Stephen’s text of 1550 omit the word “even”. For these angels, just “as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them, having in like manner with these giving themselves over to fornication and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire” (v.7). This refers not to the fornication of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, but to the angels, who—like the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah—committed fornication and went after strange flesh. In other words, these angels did nothing but fornication. They forgot everything, and only indulged in fornication. They went after strange flesh, and so they were “set forth as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.” We may therefore say that Jude 6-7 explains Genesis 6.

Pay careful attention to what Watchman Nee said. He said the union of spirits with men to create the Nephilim was not from the 1/3 of the angels that fell with Lucifer, but was outside that angelic host, so it would be of course the disembodied spirits, the demons, instead.

Nee calls the spirit that entered the serpent a Satanic spirit, not that the spirit was Satan. It's like saying when Jesus died around 30 AD so that He didn't die in 30 AD but somewhere about then around 27 to 33 AD.

Satan can't himself enter people, all he can do is plant suggestions and ideas, but demons because they were part of the former world can inhabit bodies - hence the term, demonic possession NOT angelic possession. It was a demon who is a Satanic spirit that entered the serpent to tempt Eve under the instruction of Satan of course.

So it is not the fallen angels that had sex because they can't do that. Spirit beings can't have sex with physical beings. Demons can't have sex either. But what they can do is possess the body of a human if the person allows them entrance and when that human being has sex a strange genetic aberration takes place which created the Nephilim.

Thank you Lord for this discernment. Amen.