Apparent Gospel Contradictions

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03-13-2009, 02:47 PM
DD2014

Apparent Gospel Contradictions

We are told to accept that Jesus existed based upon the Gospels of the Bible, yet the Gospels are so poorly written that a logical person is at best left to ponder if Jesus even existed. The Gospels are consistently contradictive, filled with mathematic errors and don’t compliment each other on very important details.

Gospel Contradictions:
1) How many generations were there between Abraham to David? Matthew 1:17 lists fourteen generations. Matthew 1:2 lists thirteen generations.
2) Is Paul lying? In Acts 20:35 Paul told people "to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'" Since Jesus never made such a biblical statement, isn’t Paul guilty of deception?
3) When did the leper become not a leper? (Matthew 8:13 & 8:14) Jesus healed the leper before visiting the house. (Mark 1:29-30 & 1:40-42) Jesus healed the leper after visiting Simon Peter’s house.
4) Who approached Jesus? (Matthew 8:5-7) The Centurion approached Jesus, beseeching help for a sick servant. (Luke 7:3 & 7:6-7) The Centurion did not approach Jesus. He sent friends and elders of the Jews.
5) Was she dead or just dying? (Matthew 9:18) He asked for help, saying his daughter was already dead. (Luke 8:41-42) Jairus approached Jesus for help, because his daughter was dying.
6) Just what did Jesus instruct them to take? (Matthew 10:10) Jesus instructed them not to take a staff, not to wear sandals. (Mark 6:8-9) Jesus instructed his disciples to wear sandals and take a staff on their journey.
7) When did John find out Jesus was the Messiah? (Matthew 11:2-3) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the messiah. (Luke 7:18-22) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the Messiah. (John 1 :29-34,36) John already knew Jesus was the Messiah.
8) Who made the request? (Matthew 20:20-21) Their mother requested that James and John, Zebedee’s children, should sit beside Jesus in his Kingdom. (Mark 10:35-37) James and John, Zebedee’s children, requested that they should sit beside Jesus in his Kingdom.
9) What animals were brought to Jesus? (Matthew 21:2-7) two of the disciples brought Jesus an ass and a colt from the village of Bethphage. (Mark 11:2-7) They brought him only a colt.
10) When did the fig tree hear of its doom? (Matthew 21:17-19) Jesus cursed the fig tree after purging the temple. (Mark 11:14-15 & 20) He cursed it before the purging.
11) When did the fig tree keel? (Matthew 21:9) The fig tree withered immediately. and the disciples registered surprise then and there. (Mark 11:12-14 & 20) The morning after Jesus cursed the fig tree, the disciples noticed it had withered and expressed astonishment.
12) Was John the Baptist Elias? "This is Elias which was to come." Matthew 11:14 "And they asked him, what then? Art thou Elias? And he said I am not." John l:21
13) Who was the father of Joseph? Matthew 1:16 The father of Joseph was Jacob. Luke 3 :23 The father of Joseph was Heli. Christians shall try to LIE and tell you that one is the heritage of Mary and the other Joseph. This is utter bull@#$%, the Hebrew and Greek cultures NEVER regarded the bloodline of the mother. They were patriarchal societies which only concerned themselves with paternal lineage.
14) How many generations were there from the Babylon captivity to Christ? Matthew 1:17 Fourteen generations, Matthew 1:12-16 Thirteen generations.
15) Matthew 2:15, 19 & 21-23 The infant Christ was taken into Egypt. Luke 2:22 & 39 The infant Christ was NOT taken to Egypt.
16) Matthew 5:1-2 Christ preached his first sermon on the mount. Luke 6:17 & 20 Christ preached his first sermon in the plain.
17) John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee. Mark 1:14 John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee. John 1:43 & 3:22-24
18) What was the nationality of the woman who besought Jesus? Matthew 15:22 "And behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, Have mercy on me, 0 Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil." Mark 7:26 "The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation, and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter."
19) How many blind men besought Jesus? Matthew 20:30 Two blind men. Luke 18:35-38 Only one blind man.
20) Where did the devil take Jesus first? (Matthew 4:5-8) The Devil took Jesus first to the parapet of the temple, then to a high place to view all the Kingdoms of the world. (Luke 4:5-9) The Devil took Jesus first to a high place to view the kingdoms, then to the parapet of the temple.
21) Can one pray in public? (Matthew 6:5-6) Jesus condemned public prayer. (1 Timothy 2:8) Paul encouraged public prayer.
22) If we decide to do good works, should those works be seen? Matthew 5:16 "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works." 1 Peter 2:12 "Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that ... they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation." This contradicts: Matthew 6:1-4 "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them…that thine alms may be in secret." Matthew 23:3-5 "Do not ye after their [Pharisees'] works ... all their works they do for to be seen of men."
23) Who did Jesus tell the Lord’s Prayer to? (Matthew 5:1, 6:9-13 & 7:28) Jesus delivered the Lord’s Prayer during the Sermon on the Mount before the multitudes. (Luke 11:1-4) He delivered it before the disciples alone, and not as part of the Sermon on the Mount.
24) When was Christ crucified? Mark 15:25 "And it was the third hour and they crucified him." John 19:14-15 "And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your king…Shall I crucify your king?" John 19:14-15.
25) The two thieves reviled Christ. (Matthew 27:44 & Mark 15:32) Only one of the thieves reviled Christ. Luke 23:39-40.
26) In 1 Corinthians 1:17 ("For Christ sent me [Paul] not to baptize but to preach the gospel") Paul said Jesus was wrong when he said in Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them…" Clearly one of these people is wrong, either way, it’s a contradiction.
27) When did Satan enter Judas? Satan entered into Judas while at the supper. John 13:27 Satan entered Judas before the supper. Luke 23:3-4 & 7
28) How many women came to the sepulcher? John 20:1 Only one woman went, Mary Magdalene. Matthew 28:1 Mary Magdalene and the "other Mary" (Jesus’ mother) went.
29) Mark 16:2 It was sunrise when the two women went to the sepulcher. John 20:1 It was still dark (before sunrise) when Mary Magdalene went alone to the sepulcher.
30) There were two angels seen by the women at the sepulcher and they were standing up. Luke 24:4 There was only one angel seen and he was sitting down. Mark 28:2-5
31) How many angels were within the sepulcher? John 20:11-12 two, Mark 16:5 one.
32) The Holy Ghost bestowed at Pentecost. Acts 1:5-8 & 2:1-4 The holy Ghost bestowed before Pentecost. John 20:22
33) Where did Jesus first appear to the eleven disciples? In a room in Jerusalem. Luke 24:32-37 On a mountain in Galilee. Matthew 28:15-17
34) Where did Christ ascend from? From Mount Olivet. Acts 1:9-12 From Bethany. Luke 24:50-51
35) Can all sins be forgiven? (Acts 13:39) All sins can be forgiven. Great, I’m happy to know God is so merciful, but wait (Mark 3:29) Cursing or blaspheming the Holy Spirit is unforgivable.
36) The Elijah mystery: (Malachi 4:5) Elijah must return before the final days of the world. (Matthew 11:12-14) Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah. (Matthew 17:12- 13) Jesus insists that Elijah has already come, and everyone understood him to mean John the Baptist. (Mark 9:13) Jesus insists that Elijah has already come. (John 1:21) John the Baptist maintained that he was not Elijah.
37) Who purchased the potter’s field? Acts 1:18 The field was purchased by Judas. John 20:1 The potter’s field was purchased by the chief priests.
38) Paul’s attendants heard the miraculous voice and stood speechless. Acts 9:7 Paul’s attendants did not hear the voice and were prostrate. Acts 22:9 & 26:14
39) Who bought the Sepulcher? Jacob, Josh 24:32 Abraham, Acts 7:16
40) Was it lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death? "The Jews answered him, we have a law, and by our law he ought to die." John 19:7 "The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death." John 18:31
41) Has anyone ascended up to heaven? Elijah went up to heaven: "And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." 2 Kings 2:11 "No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man." John 3:13
42) Is scripture inspired by God? "all scripture is given by inspiration of God." 2 Timothy 3:16 compared to: "But I speak this by permission and not by commandment." 1 Corinthians 7:6 "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord." 1 Corinthians 7:12 "That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord" 2 Corinthians.

Discuss...
03-13-2009, 04:09 PM
Churchwork

None of these are contradictions. You are just misperceiving them. And even if there was Bible mistakes due to human errors that is not a good enough reason to call Jesus a liar and reject His atonement and resurrection. You have to deal with the proof of His resurrection, just as Paul said in 1 Cor. 15. Christianity all stands or falls on the resurrection proof. Once you determine this, then you can delve into inerrancy issues. You are still avoiding, still not addressing the point in hand. 99+% of skeptical scholars admit Jesus lived because nobody is more well documented in antiquity than was Jesus, so to say Jesus didn't live is just mindless obstinacy. You don't say Julius Caesar or Tiberius didn't live because some scholar had stated some things incorrectly. Historians don't do history that way, nor should you with regard to Jesus.

Start off with your very first item then we can go onto the second, but first you need to acknowledge there is no problem with the first item:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DD2014

1) How many generations were there between Abraham to David? Matthew 1:17 lists fourteen generations. Matthew 1:2 lists thirteen generations.

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah (and his brothers), Perez (and Zerah), Hezron, Aram, Aminadab, Nahshon, Salmon, Boaz, Obed, Jesse, David.

This totals 14 names, 14 full generations. What's the problem?

Why is 14 important? 2 is the number of testimony and 7 is the number of temporary perfection of God. So 2 x 7 is God's perfect testimony. 10 is the number of testing. The two hands have 5 fingers on each. There are 5 wise and 5 foolish virgins. 4 is the number of creation, for it comes out of 3. The four living creatures represent created beings, among whom man is the most important. Hence, 4 is the number of man. 10 plus 4 means the created man is being tested.

I prefer to look upon 14 as 10 plus 4, because in Hebrew that is how 14 is arrived at. In other words, the generation from Abraham to David are being tested, but in the process there is not to be found one among them "the seed of the woman" (Gen. 3.15).

I did the first one to be courteous, but now you must address the resurrection if you want to be intellectually honest with yourself, because that is the central issue. Then we can come back to the second item on your list.
03-20-2009, 07:23 PM
DD2014

Quote:

And even if there was Bible mistakes due to human errors that is not a good enough reason to call Jesus a liar and reject His atonement and resurrection.

Well if the people that are writing about Jesus and claimed to witness these things can't even agree on what actually happened. Then how can you? It is ignorant to say that we sould follow the Gosples, when they don't even coraborrate some of the things that Jesus said. Once you realize this then you must pick and chose who was right, which is kind of hard considering that they are all dead.

Quote:

This totals 14 names, 14 full generations. What's the problem?

So you count Jeconiah twice, and include Jesus? Who was not even related to any of them because you claim that Mary's pregnancy was immaculate. So in that case one of the prophecies must be wrong. Jesus being related to David, or the immaculate birth. Take your pick 'cause you can't have both.

Quote:

now you must address the resurrection if you want to be intellectually honest with yourself, because that is the central issue.

Ok, their is no evidence to support the resurrection other then the four Gosples (which can't even agree on that).

Jesus’ First Resurrection Appearance:
The resurrection of someone dead is an important event, but the gospels don’t seem to know where and when Jesus first appeared.

Mark 16:14-15 - Jesus appears to Mary Magdalena but it’s not clear where (in older endings of Mark, he didn’t appear at all)
Matthew 28:8-9 - Jesus first appears near his tomb
Luke 24:13-15 - Jesus first appears near Emmaus, several miles from Jerusalem
John 20:13-14 - Jesus first appears at his tomb

Who Sees Jesus First?:
Mark - Jesus appears first to Mary Magdalena then later to “the eleven”
Matthew - Jesus appears first to Mary Magdalena, then to the other Mary, and finally to ”the eleven”
Luke - Jesus appears first to “two,” then to Simon, then to “the eleven”
John - Jesus appears first to Mary Magdalena, then the disciples without Thomas, then the disciples with Thomas
Women’s Reactions to the Empty Tomb:
The gospels agree that the empty tomb was found by women (though not on which women), but what did the women do?

Mark 16:8 - The women were amazed and afraid, so they kept quiet
Matthew 28:6-8 - The women ran away “with great joy”
Luke 24:9-12 - The women left the tomb and told the disciples
John 20:1-2 - Mary told the disciples that the body had been stolen
Jesus’ Behavior After His Resurrection:
If someone rises from the dead, his actions should be significant, but the gospels don’t agree on how Jesus first behaved

Mark 16:14-15 - Jesus commissions “the eleven” to preach the gospel
Matthew 28:9 - Jesus lets Mary Magdalene and another Mary hold his feet
John 20:17 - Jesus forbids Mary to touch him because he hasn’t ascended to heaven yet, but a week later he lets Thomas touch him anyway

Jesus Ascends to Heaven:
It wasn’t enough that Jesus rise from the dead; he also had to ascend to heaven. But where, when, and how did this happen?

Mark 16:14-19 - Jesus ascends while he and his disciples are seated at a table in or near Jerusalem
Matthew 28:16-20 - Jesus’ ascension isn’t mentioned at all, but Matthew ends at a mountain in Galilee
Luke 24:50-51 - Jesus ascends outisde, after dinner, and at Bethany and on the same day as the resurrection
John - Nothing about Jesus’ ascension is mentioned
Acts 1:9-12 - Jesus ascends at least 40 days after his resurrection, at Mt. Olivet
03-20-2009, 10:13 PM
Churchwork

Quote:

Originally Posted by DD2014

Well if the people that are writing about Jesus and claimed to witness these things can't even agree on what actually happened. Then how can you? It is ignorant to say that we sould follow the Gosples, when they don't even coraborrate some of the things that Jesus said. Once you realize this then you must pick and chose who was right, which is kind of hard considering that they are all dead.

But there are no Bible contradictions. You can spend the rest of your life searching for Bible contradictions and never find one, but that seems vain when you don't even look at the prescient issue of His resurrection and how no naturalistic theory can account for it. Since historians don't do history your way, by rejecting everything just because of some small perceived error, then why do you go against the historical approach? You seem to only apply your method to the Bible, but isn't that just a double standard?

Quote:

So you count Jeconiah twice, and include Jesus? Who was not even related to any of them because you claim that Mary's pregnancy was immaculate. So in that case one of the prophecies must be wrong. Jesus being related to David, or the immaculate birth. Take your pick 'cause you can't have both.

You are changing the topic. You said there were not 14 generations from Abraham to David, so deal with that, for I gave you 14 names. How can you move onto another point and not address this mistake? Now you jump around to something else about subsequent generations. See this is my point. You're like a bouncing ball, bouncing all over and wrong every time, but never deal with the central issue which is the proof Jesus is God by His resurrection. Paul is trying to get you to see the same thing as well in 1 Cor. 15. Examine other issues, certainly, but not before the resurrection data. How many times do you have to be wrong before you accept Christ? It's like you have created an insurmountable wall for yourself, and the only way you will accept God is if you are God yourself?

Quote:

Ok, their is no evidence to support the resurrection other then the four Gosples (which can't even agree on that).

But they do agree, and what about Paul? Paul is the earliest source and he said he met with James, Peter and John, the original Apostles, who testified to seeing Jesus resurrected. What about Peter's books, Jude's and James? It's not just the 4 gospels.

Quote:

Jesus’ First Resurrection Appearance:
The resurrection of someone dead is an important event, but the gospels don’t seem to know where and when Jesus first appeared.

Mark 16:14-15 - Jesus appears to Mary Magdalena but it’s not clear where (in older endings of Mark, he didn’t appear at all)
Matthew 28:8-9 - Jesus first appears near his tomb
Luke 24:13-15 - Jesus first appears near Emmaus, several miles from Jerusalem
John 20:13-14 - Jesus first appears at his tomb

There is only one original Mark, so just because Mary doesn't appear in other endings, doesn't pose a problem. Mark 16.14-15 is not the verse for Mary, but it's verse 9. Why is it necessary Mark list the place? It is the differences that don't contradict each other that authenticate the four gospels. It shows they just weren't copied one from another. Why is it required each gospel mention every last appearance? Are you ready to admit this is not a problem? You brought it up as being a problem, but have I not just showed you it is not a problem? I'll address your issues one by one, but you have to acknowledge at the very least these first one or two issues you raised are not a problem, and your thinking is not right by misreading and misunderstanding on your part.

I'll also address this private message you sent me about prophecies as well once you can acknowledge there is no problem with the points I responded to (let me know)...

Quote:

Prophecies to Identify the Messiah, Which Jesus Does Not Fulfill:
1) Matthew 1:23 says that Jesus (the messiah) would be called Immanuel, which means "God with us." Yet no one, not even his parents, call him Immanuel at any point in the bible.
2) The Messiah must be a physical descendant of David (Romans 1:3 & Acts 2:30). Yet, how could Jesus meet this requirement since his genealogies in Matthew 1 and Luke 3 show he descended from David through Joseph, who was not his natural father because of the Virgin Birth. Hence, this prophecy could not have been fulfilled.
3) Isaiah 7:16 seems to say that before Jesus had reached the age of maturity, both of the Jewish countries would be destroyed. Yet there is no mention of this prophecy being fulfilled in the New Testament with the coming of Jesus, hence this is another Messiah prophecy not fulfilled.

Prophecies Christians Use to Verify Jesus as the Messiah, Yet Clearly Fail:
4) The gospels (especially Matthew 21:4 and John 12:14-15) claim that Jesus fulfills the prophecy of Zechariah 9:9. But the next few verses (Zechariah 9:10-13) show that the person referred to in this verse is a military king that would rule "from sea to sea". Since Jesus had neither an army nor a kingdom, he could not have fulfilled this prophecy.
5) Matthew (Matthew 2:17-18) quotes Jeremiah (Jeremiah 31:15), claiming that it was a prophecy of King Herod’s alleged slaughter of the children in and around Bethlehem after the birth of Jesus. But this passage refers to the Babylonian captivity, as is clear by reading the next two verses (Jeremiah 31:16-17), and, thus, has nothing to do with Herod’s massacre.
6) John 19:33 says that during Jesus’ crucifixion, the soldiers didn’t break his legs because he was already dead. Verse John 19:36 claims that this fulfilled a prophecy: "Not a bone of him shall be broken." But there is no such prophecy. It is sometimes said that the prophecy appears in Exodus 12:46, Numbers 9:12 & Psalm 34:20. This is not correct. Exodus 12:46 & Numbers 9:12 are not prophecies, they are commandments. The Israelites are told not to break the bones of the Passover lamb, and this is all it is about. And Psalm 34:20 seems to refer to righteous people in general (see verse Psalm 34:19, where a plural is used), not to make a prophecy about a specific person.
7) "When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt." Hosea 11:1. Matthew (Matthew 2:15) claims that the flight of Jesus’ family to Egypt is a fulfillment of this verse. But Hosea 11:1 is not a prophecy at all. It is a reference to the Hebrew exodus from Egypt and has nothing to do with Jesus. Matthew tries to hide this fact by quoting only the last part of the verse ("Out of Egypt I have called my son").
8) "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." Micah 5:2 The gospel of Matthew (Matthew 2:5-6) claims that Jesus’ birth in Bethlehem fulfils this prophecy. But this is unlikely for two reasons.
A) "Bethlehem Ephratah" in Micah 5:2 refers not to a town, but to a clan: the clan of Bethlehem, who was the son of Caleb’s second wife, Ephrathah (1 Chronicles 2:18, 2:50-52 & 4:4).
B) The prophecy (if that is what it is) does not refer to the Messiah, but rather to a military leader, as can be seen from Micah 5:6. This leader is supposed to defeat the Assyrians, which, of course, Jesus never did. It should also be noted that Matthew altered the text of Micah 5:2 by saying: "And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Judah" rather than "Bethlehem Ephratah" as is said in Micah 5:2. He did this, intentionally no doubt, to make this verse appear to refer to the town of Bethlehem rather than the family clan.

You get an infraction for avoiding the central issue in which Paul says he met with the Apostles who told him they saw Jesus resurrected. And because you just slipped right over the 14 generations from Abraham to David. I am trying to encourage you not to do this. Acknowledge each alleged problem is not a problem at all when you are shown, otherwise you are just a bouncing ball, not in control of your own self.

So far, can you agree the first points you brought I responded to there are no problems?
03-22-2009, 02:43 PM
DD2014

Quote:

You said there were not 14 generations from Abraham to David,

Sorry my bad I ment the whole genealogy of Jesus

1A record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ the son of David, the son of Abraham:
2Abraham was the father of Isaac,
Isaac the father of Jacob,
Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
3Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,
Perez the father of Hezron,
Hezron the father of Ram,
4Ram the father of Amminadab,
Amminadab the father of Nahshon,
Nahshon the father of Salmon,
5Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,
Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,
Obed the father of Jesse,
6and Jesse the father of King David.
David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah's wife,
7Solomon the father of Rehoboam,
Rehoboam the father of Abijah,
Abijah the father of Asa,
8Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,
Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,
Jehoram the father of Uzziah,
9Uzziah the father of Jotham,
Jotham the father of Ahaz,
Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,
10Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,
Manasseh the father of Amon,
Amon the father of Josiah,
11and Josiah the father of Jeconiah and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.
12After the exile to Babylon:
Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13Zerubbabel the father of Abiud,
Abiud the father of Eliakim,
Eliakim the father of Azor,
14Azor the father of Zadok,
Zadok the father of Akim,
Akim the father of Eliud,
15Eliud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. 17Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Christ. (BTW if you didn't know, the bible claims that Jesus is not Joseph's son so how could he be related to King David???)

14 + 14 + 14 = 42

If you actually count the generations you get 41.

The Bible was wrong...

Quote:

But there are no Bible contradictions. You can spend the rest of your life searching for Bible contradictions and never find one

Do you know what a contradiction is? I'll give you an example:

(Matthew 10:10) 10take no bag for the journey, or extra tunic, or sandals or a staff; for the worker is worth his keep.

Now the contradiction...

(Mark 6:8-9) 8These were his instructions: "Take nothing for the journey except a staff—no bread, no bag, no money in your belts. 9Wear sandals but not an extra tunic.

Now you must assume who is correct. Is it Matthew? Or Mark? One or the other. Both of them cannot be correct, because that is illogical. Obviously you can't be wearing and not wearing sandals at the same time (same goes for the staff). Please explain to me how this is not a contradiction...
03-22-2009, 03:00 PM
DD2014

Quote:

but never deal with the central issue which is the proof Jesus is God by His resurrection.

You keep talking about some type of proof. If your proof is writen on a few scrolls by 12 people over 2000 years ago, you don't have a very good case. I can just as easily claim that the Hindu demon-lord Ravana's flying palace called Pushpaka is proven because some people wrote about it.

You can't claim the resurrection happened on such a low standard of proof. If you can come up with something better then that, (not an empty tomb) Then I will give the matter some consideration. But untill then they are just storys. Hehe! maybe in 2000 years someone will be praying to HarryPotter.
03-22-2009, 08:50 PM
Churchwork

Quote:

Originally Posted by DD2014

Sorry my bad I ment the whole genealogy of Jesus
If you actually count the generations you get 41.
The Bible was wrong...

Actually, you are wrong, because you misunderstand something.

David is counted twice since he concludes the first 14 generations and at the same time he commences the second 14 generations to signify him as a man after God's own heart, unique among the generations before Christ (he even had 14 consonants to his name).

Quote:

BTW if you didn't know, the bible claims that Jesus is not Joseph's son so how could he be related to King David???

Through Mary.

Let's get you to deal with this fact, before we move onto other stuff. But still you are avoiding the resurrection, which is a problem for you, because though you can talk about a million different issues, aren't you violating the proof of God when you don't examine the number one proof for Jesus being God? You don't need to claim the Bible is inerrant to prove Jesus is God.
03-22-2009, 09:05 PM
Churchwork

Quote:

Originally Posted by DD2014

You keep talking about some type of proof. If your proof is writen on a few scrolls by 12 people over 2000 years ago, you don't have a very good case. I can just as easily claim that the Hindu demon-lord Ravana's flying palace called Pushpaka is proven because some people wrote about it.

You can't claim the resurrection happened on such a low standard of proof. If you can come up with something better then that, (not an empty tomb) Then I will give the matter some consideration. But untill then they are just storys. Hehe! maybe in 2000 years someone will be praying to HarryPotter.

Writing about it is different than proving it. Giving eyewitness testimony of oneself as Paul did and saying he spent time with Peter, James and John who said the same in various group settings is the data we have before us in 1 Cor. 15., Gal. 1 & 2, which almost all skeptical scholars concede are Paul's genuine words and writing. And the Apostles were martyred for their faith, but people don't die for something they know is a lie. They, therefore, truly believed they had seen Jesus resurrected.

This is not a low standard of proof, for Jesus had 12 original Apostles. Along with this fact, we have a total of 12 different accounts in various group settings and a couple of individual accounts also. Why is 12 not good enough for you? Why do you need more? Maybe 50 and 100 is not good enough. Maybe 10,000,000 is not good enough. Why do you get to dictate the number? After all there were only 12 original Apostles who say Jesus resurrected by name in addition to the women, Paul, James, the brother of Jesus, and other unnamed witnesses. The Bible is not meant to list all the names, for then we would needlessly be carrying around a Bible larger in size than need be.

Paul even said there were 500 at one time and anyone can come to tell otherwise if this is not the case? The empty tomb is not a proof, but it agrees with the rest of the data. You would need reason to think they were just stories, for Paul really did set up all those churches in his writings and Luke's writings. There is not an air of anything being made up, so the burden is on you. Harry Potter never claimed to be God as Jesus did. Harry Potter was always a fictional character, but there is no history of ever Jesus being fictional as he spent 3 years in his ministry with the disciples who claimed they saw him resurrected.

Unless you can come up with a naturalistic explanation that fits the data, aren't you in a way admitting Jesus is God and you are going to Hell, because you refuse His loving sacrifice?
04-24-2009, 09:18 AM
Crispus

Answers to Gospel Contradictions

Quote:

Originally Posted by DD2014

We are told to accept that Jesus existed based upon the Gospels of the Bible, yet the Gospels are so poorly written that a logical person is at best left to ponder if Jesus even existed. The Gospels are consistently contradictive, filled with mathematic errors and don’t compliment each other on very important details.

Hello. I've read about a lot of places where the bible is said to contradict itself and have answers for about 30 of those you posted. I assume that these were taken from another source so when I refer to the author I mean the one who originally wrote these.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DD2014

1) How many generations were there between Abraham to David? Matthew 1:17 lists fourteen generations. Matthew 1:2 lists thirteen generations.

Matthew 1:17 says there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Christ. Matthew counted the generations inclusively, including Jeconiah twice, and that is why he said there were fourteen generations from the exile to Babylon to the Christ. He probably did this because the exile to Babylon and destruction of Jerusalem were among the most notable events in the history of the Jewish people. To count descendants in an inclusive manner is not exclusive to Matthew's gospel. Jude says Enoch was the seventh from Adam but that is inclusive since he was six generations after Adam (1 Chron. 1:1). This is not Enoch son of Cain (Gen. 4:17) but son of Jared. Matthew mentions fourteen generations from David to the exile to Babylon and fourteen generations from the exile to Babylon to the Christ. He would have counted the generations in his list and was aware that he included Jeconiah twice. A better question is why didn't Matthew include Ahaziah, Joash and Amaziah? (see 1 Chron. 3)

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Originally Posted by DD2014

2) Is Paul lying? In Acts 20:35 Paul told people "to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'" Since Jesus never made such a biblical statement, isn’t Paul guilty of deception?

Not everything Jesus said was recorded by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and Jesus probably said many things which weren't written down but were handed down orally (cf. John 21:25). This may have been the case in Acts 20:35 but it's also possible this was not a direct quote and Paul was summing up one of Jesus' teachings (see Matt. 20:28, Luke 6:27-36, John 13:12-17).

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Originally Posted by DD2014

3) When did the leper become not a leper? (Matthew 8:13 & 8:14) Jesus healed the leper before visiting the house. (Mark 1:29-30 & 1:40-42) Jesus healed the leper after visiting Simon Peter’s house.

The accounts of the gospel are not always written in chronological order which is the case here.

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Originally Posted by DD2014

4) Who approached Jesus? (Matthew 8:5-7) The Centurion approached Jesus, beseeching help for a sick servant. (Luke 7:3 & 7:6-7) The centurion did not approach Jesus. He sent friends and elders of the Jews.

The elders approached him.

"In a similar way, in the ancient world it was perfectly understood and accepted that actions were often attributed to people when in fact they occurred through their subordinates or emissaries-in this case through the Jewish people."
(Craig Blomberg quoted in The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel, 1998, p. 46)
It's clear from the gospel according to Luke that the Centurion's servant approached Jesus:

That is why I did not even consider myself worthy to come to you. But say the word, and my servant will be healed. For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, 'Go,' and he goes; and that one, 'Come,' and he comes. I say to my servant, 'Do this,' and he does it." (Luke 7:7-8, NIV)

Similarly, James and John's Mother asked Jesus to let her sons sit at his right and left in his Kingdom though in Mark it says James and John asked Jesus. Compare Matthew 20:20 to Mark 10:35-37.

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5) Was she dead or just dying? (Matthew 9:18) He asked for help, saying his daughter was already dead. (Luke 8:41-42) Jairus approached Jesus for help, because his daughter was dying.

Jairus, the ruler of a synagogue, came to Jesus, fell at his feet and pleaded with him to come to his house because his only daughter was dying (Luke 8:41-42). While they were on the way someone informed them that his daughter had died and Jesus said to Jairus "Don't be afraid; just believe, and she will be healed" (Luke 9:49-50). In this story Matthew used the literary style of compression which is often found in Matthew, Mark and Luke. That is why they are called the synoptic gospels.

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7) When did John find out Jesus was the Messiah? (Matthew 11:2-3) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the messiah. (Luke 7:18-22) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the Messiah. (John 1 :29-34,36) John already knew Jesus was the Messiah.

It was revealed to John the Baptist that Jesus was the Messiah when Jesus was baptized (John 1:33). John sent some of his disciples to ask Jesus if he was "the one to come" because John began to have doubts and needed reassurance.

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8) Who made the request? (Matthew 20:20-21) Their mother requested that James and John, Zebedee’s children, should sit beside Jesus in his Kingdom. (Mark 10:35-37) James and John, Zebedee’s children, requested that they should sit beside Jesus in his Kingdom.

8) Who made the request? (Matthew 20:20-21) Their mother requested that James and John, Zebedee’s children, should sit beside Jesus in his Kingdom. (Mark 10:35-37) James and John, Zebedee’s children, requested that they should sit beside Jesus in his Kingdom.

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9) What animals were brought to Jesus? (Matthew 21:2-7) two of the disciples brought Jesus an ass and a colt from the village of Bethphage. (Mark 11:2-7) They brought him only a colt.

A donkey and her colt were brought to Jesus though only the colt is mentioned in Mark and John.

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10) When did the fig tree hear of its doom? (Matthew 21:17-19) Jesus cursed the fig tree after purging the temple. (Mark 11:14-15 & 20) He cursed it before the purging.

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11) When did the fig tree keel? (Matthew 21:9) The fig tree withered immediately. and the disciples registered surprise then and there. (Mark 11:12-14 & 20) The morning after Jesus cursed the fig tree, the disciples noticed it had withered and expressed astonishment.

See 45 & 46 at http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-bibl...ns-refuted.htm

"When we study the narrative technique of Matthew in general, we find (as was noted in #45 above) that he sometimes arranges his material in a topical order rather than in the strictly chronological order that is more often characteristic of Mark and Luke."

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12) Was John the Baptist Elias? "This is Elias which was to come." Matthew 11:14 "And they asked him, what then? Art thou Elias? And he said I am not." John l:21

John the Baptist was not literally the same person as Elijah. In the NIV Matt. 11:14 says "This is the Elijah who was to come" which agrees with many manuscripts. The prophecy speaks of a type of Elijah that would precede the Christ that is why Jesus said "he is the Elijah to come." John the Baptist's ministry paralleled Elijah's but the Jews thought Malachi 4:5 was speaking of the same Elijah of the Old Testament.
04-24-2009, 09:28 AM
Crispus

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Originally Posted by DD2014

13) Who was the father of Joseph? Matthew 1:16 The father of Joseph was Jacob. Luke 3 :23 The father of Joseph was Heli. Christians shall try to LIE and tell you that one is the heritage of Mary and the other Joseph. This is utter bull@#$%, the Hebrew and Greek cultures NEVER regarded the bloodline of the mother. They were patriarchal societies which only concerned themselves with paternal lineage.

I don't believe that Christians are lying if they say one is the heritage of Mary and the other Joseph. I just think the explanation is inadequate. It is more likely that the genealogy in Matthew is a biological lineage - that is through Joseph's human ancestry – and the genealogy in Luke is of a legal lineage though we don't know his source.

"A second option is that both genealogies reflect Joseph's lineage in order to create the necessary legalities. But one is Joseph's human lineage-the gospel of Luke- and the other is Joseph's legal lineage, with the two diverging points where some body in the line did not have a direct offspring. They had to raise up legal heirs through various Old Testament practices.
The problem is made greater because some names are omitted, which was perfectly acceptable by standards of the ancient world. And there are textual variants-names, being translated from one language to another, often took on different spellings and were then easily confused for the name of a different individual."
(Craig Blomberg, quoted in the Case for Christ by Lee Strobel, pp. 47-48)
The only thing that might suggest the genealogy in Luke was through Mary's human ancestry (though Joseph was named) is men were dominant in Jewish culture. On the other hand Luke may have been a Gentile (Col. 4:11, 14) and there's reason to believe that Mary descended from Levi and not Judah. Elizabeth was Mary's relative (Luke 1:36) and, like her husband, Elizabeth was a descendant of Aaron who was from the tribe of Levi (Luke 1:5). It's possible that Mary may have descended from more than one tribe of Israel but, since Jewish priests were Levites and Jesus is now our high priest, it would be appropriate if his mother was a descendant of Levi. For a more detailed examination see 'Problems in the Genealogies of Jesus' by Glenn Miller.

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/fabprof4.html

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14) How many generations were there from the Babylon captivity to Christ? Matthew 1:17 Fourteen generations, Matthew 1:12-16 Thirteen generations.

This is basically the same question as number 1.

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Originally Posted by DD2014

15) Matthew 2:15, 19 & 21-23 The infant Christ was taken into Egypt. Luke 2:22 & 39 The infant Christ was NOT taken to Egypt.

It does not say in Luke chapter 2 that Jesus wasn't taken to Egypt, rather the two accounts have different details. This is an argument from silence and only a few events are recorded in all four accounts of the gospel.

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Originally Posted by DD2014

16) Matthew 5:1-2 Christ preached his first sermon on the mount. Luke 6:17 & 20 Christ preached his first sermon in the plain.

This is a good question which, unlike many objections, is worthy of examination. One explanation which has been offered is these were two different occasions although the contents of the sermon are very similar but I disagree with this explanation. Matthew 5:1 says "Now when he saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him." But at the end of the sermon it says the crowds were amazed at his teaching (Matt. 7:28) so the sermon wasn't given to only a small group of his disciples. In Luke 6 it says Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray and spent the night praying to God then in the morning went down with his disciples and stood on a level place or plain. The words in Greek are ‘topos pedinos’ and level place is a more literal translation than plain. Jesus came down from a higher point and stood on a level place that was on the mountainside. A large crowd of his disciples and a great number of people from all over Judea, from Jerusalem, and from the coast of Tyre and Sidon were there. He then sat down and began to teach them. The Sermon on the Mount was not given on a mountain’s summit but on a mountainside.

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Originally Posted by DD2014

17) John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee. Mark 1:14 John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee. John 1:43 & 3:22-24

When John said "this was before John was put in prison" (John 3:24) he was speaking of a different imprisonment than that recorded in Matthew 4:12 and Mark 1:14. In Matthew and Mark it says Jesus went to Galilee after he was in the wilderness fasting and being tested by the devil and what happened in between is only recorded in the gospel of John. John the Baptist was baptizing at Aenon near Salim which is not where Jesus was baptized by him. Originally John had baptized on the other side of the Jordan (John 10:40) and Jesus first met Andrew and Simon before returning to Galilee (John 1:35-41) and chose them as disciples by the shore of the Sea of Galilee (Luke 5:8-11). Jesus returned to Galilee after he heard that John was put in prison and that was probably why Andrew and Simon returned to Capernaum.

No details are given in Matt. 4 and Mark 1 about John's arrest and it's assumed that this refers to the imprisonment that eventually led to his death. It is possible that calling the Pharisees and Sadducees a brood of vipers motivated them to bring a false charge against John and, if that is the case, it the charge didn't stick. When Herod imprisoned John his wife Herodias had a pivotal role in his arrest and death and the latter imprisonment led to his execution and that is why details are given.

John's imprisonment by Herod is recorded in Luke chapter 3 but this is parenthetical pointing toward the future. If the gospel of John was written by someone long after the early church had been formed the writer would have had access to manuscripts, heard oral testimony and wouldn't have created this alleged discrepancy or given an explanation. Just as Peter and Paul were arrested more than one time so was John the Baptist.

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18) What was the nationality of the woman who besought Jesus? Matthew 15:22 "And behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, Have mercy on me, 0 Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil." Mark 7:26 "The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation, and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter."

Canaan was an area which included the land of the twelve tribes of Israel and extended beyond it. Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon which was not in Israel (Matt. 15:21) and, given the context, Matthew probably referred to the woman as a Canaanite to show she wasn't a Jew. When Mark said she was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia, he was speaking of her ancestry and where she was raised.

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19) How many blind men besought Jesus? Matthew 20:30 Two blind men. Luke 18:35-38 Only one blind man.

I believe it was two blind men though only one is mentioned in Luke 18. The same is true of demon possessed men: two in Matthew (8:28) and one in Mark (5:2) and Luke (8:27).

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20) Where did the devil take Jesus first? (Matthew 4:5-8) The Devil took Jesus first to the parapet of the temple, then to a high place to view all the Kingdoms of the world. (Luke 4:5-9) The Devil took Jesus first to a high place to view the kingdoms, then to the parapet of the temple.

The events in the gospel accounts are not always written in chronological order. The devil took Jesus to the highest point of the temple first before he took him to a high place and showed him all the kingdoms of the world. It was then that Jesus told the devil to leave him.

"These two adverbs tote and palin, seem to be quite specific indeed--so specific that if the second and third temptations did not take place in that order, then Matthew would definitely have been in error. In Luke's case however, a simple kai ("and") is all that introduces the second temptation mentioned (the offer of a world empire). Likewise the third temptation (the jump from the pinnacle) is led into a mere de ("and" or "but"). This account is by no means so emphatic in regard to sequence as are Matthew's tote and palin."
(Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties by Gleason Archer, pp. 323-324)

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21) Can one pray in public? (Matthew 6:5-6) Jesus condemned public prayer. (1 Timothy 2:8) Paul encouraged public prayer.

Yes one can pray in public. Jesus didn't condemn all public prayer only the prayers of those who prayed to be seen by men.

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. (Matt. 6:5, NIV, emphasis mine)

Matthew 6 begins with Jesus saying "Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men to be seen by them."

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22) If we decide to do good works, should those works be seen? Matthew 5:16 "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works." 1 Peter 2:12 "Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that ... they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation." This contradicts: Matthew 6:1-4 "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them…that thine alms may be in secret." Matthew 23:3-5 "Do not ye after their [Pharisees'] works ... all their works they do for to be seen of men."

Again the author ignores the context where Jesus said to be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men to be seen by them. It's impossible to do good works without even one person knowing about at least one of them but we are not to do good works to please men but to please God.

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23) Who did Jesus tell the Lord’s Prayer to? (Matthew 5:1, 6:9-13 & 7:28) Jesus delivered the Lord’s Prayer during the Sermon on the Mount before the multitudes. (Luke 11:1-4) He delivered it before the disciples alone, and not as part of the Sermon on the Mount.

Most of the sermon on the Mount that is recorded in Luke is in Luke 6:17-49. This occurred after Jesus spent a night in prayer (Luke 6:12). The Lord's prayer is found in Luke 11 but it doesn't say it was when he was alone with the eleven disciples. Again, the accounts of the gospel are not always written in chronological order and the author is reading something into the text which isn't there.
04-24-2009, 09:33 AM
Crispus

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Originally Posted by DD2014

24) When was Christ crucified? Mark 15:25 "And it was the third hour and they crucified him." John 19:14-15 "And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your king…Shall I crucify your king?" John 19:14-15.

John wrote his gospel in Ephesus which was a Roman province and he was writing to a Hellenistic audience.

"...the Romans had always two modes of reckoning the day, one which agreed with the primitive, from evening to morning and morning to evening and was permitted at least by the law while it did not interfere with legal or religious purposes; and another prescribed by the law for the courts of justice, and for the offices and services of religion, and for public purposes in general, from midnight to midnight."
(fasti temporis catholici and orgines kalendariae by Edward Greswell, pp. 215 - 216)
At the beginning of Chapter 6 John says Jesus crossed to the far shore of the Sea of Galilee, which was what it was called by the Jews. He then clarifies it to those he's writing by saying "that is, the Sea of Tiberias." That's a clear indication that he had the audience in mind. In the gospels the phrase "the Jews" is found many times. Excluding the eighteen times Jesus is called the "king of the Jews" the phrase "the Jews" is found once in Matthew, once in Mark, twice in Luke and more than sixty times in the gospel of John. John was speaking about a people who were of a different nationality than those to whom he was writing. That is why he mentioned ceremonial washing (2:6), a Jewish feast (5:1, 7:11), the Jewish Passover (2:13, 6:4, 11:55), defined the words Rabbi (1:38), Rabboni (20:16) and Siloam (9:7), gave the Greek equivalent for Thomas as Didymus (11:16, 20:24, 21:2) and commented on Jewish burial customs (John 19:40; cf. 2 Chron. 16:14). John also stated that the Feast of Dedication, or Hanukkah, was in winter (John 10:22); a fact which would have been known to the Jews.

The Romans did not use the midnight to midnight mode of timekeeping at the beginning of the Roman empire but, in the second century A.D., Aulus Gellius said the duration and limits of the days that were termed "civil" were reckoned differently all over the world (Attic Nights by Gellius, 3.2). He also quoted a lost work from Marcus Varro called "Antiquitates rerum humanarum et divinarum" in which Varro said "Persons who are born during the twenty-four hours between one midnight and the next midnight are considered to have been born on one and the same day." Marcus Varro lived from 116 - 27 B.C.

There is historical evidence that the Romans reckoned the hours in a day from midnight to midnight in the writings of Pliny the Elder:

"Different peoples measure the actual unit called 'a day' in different ways. The Babylonians reckon this as the interval between two sunrises; the Athenians, that between two sunsets; the Umbrians that from midday to midday; ordinary people everywhere, from dawn to dark. Roman priests and those who- fix the 'civil day', likewise the Egyptians and Hipparchus, reckon the day from midnight to midnight."
(Natural History: A Selection by Pliny the Elder, translated by John F. Healy, 1991, p. 35)
Gleason Archer gives the reference as Natural History, 2.77. Pliny the Elder wrote Natural History about 77 A.D, very close to the time that John wrote his account of the gospel. Hipparchus was a Greek astronomer, geographer and mathematician who lived from 190 to 120 B.C., during the Hellenistic period. Roman Historian Seneca lived in the first century and wrote this:

"I shall make myself better understood, if I say the month was October, the day was the thirteenth. What hour it was I cannot certainly tell; philosophers will agree more often than clocks; but it was between midday and one after noon."\
(Seneca, Apocolocyntosis, chapter 2)
"One after noon" would not refer to the first hour of the night or Seneca would have said it was between sunset and the first hour of the evening. Seneca was speaking of one o'clock in the afternoon. In the fourth century the Roman grammarian Macrobius said the Romans had declared the day began at the sixth hour of the night (Saturnalia 1:3). There is also evidence from the deaths of Polycarp and Pionius as well.

"Polycarp was martyred 'at the eighth hour' (Mart. Pol. XXL), Pionius at 'the tenth hour' (Acta Marl. p. 137); both at Smyrna. Such exhibitions commonly took place in the morning (Philo, II. 519); so that 8.0 and 10.0 A.M. are more probable than 2.0 and 4.0."
(The Gospel According to St. John: With Maps, Notes and Introduction by Alfred Plummer, 1902 ed., p. 341)

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25) The two thieves reviled Christ. (Matthew 27:44 & Mark 15:32) Only one of the thieves reviled Christ. Luke 23:39-40.

It is possible that there were more than two robbers crucified with Jesus that day and only the words of those crucified directly next to him were recorded. The other possibility is that one thief had reason for a change of heart and repented. If the latter is true it may have been because Jesus asked his heavenly Father to forgive those who had crucified him (Luke 23:34).

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26) In 1 Corinthians 1:17 ("For Christ sent me [Paul] not to baptize but to preach the gospel") Paul said Jesus was wrong when he said in Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them…" Clearly one of these people is wrong, either way, it’s a contradiction.

Paul did not say Jesus was wrong when he said to make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Not everyone in a given church participates in baptismal ceremonies. Baptizing people was not Paul's main ministry though he did baptize Crispus, Gaius and the whole household of Stephanas (1 Cor. 1:14-16).

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27) When did Satan enter Judas? Satan entered into Judas while at the supper. John 13:27 Satan entered Judas before the supper. Luke 23:3-4 & 7

Both before and during the last supper. John 13:2 says the evening meal was being served, and the devil had already prompted Judas to betray Jesus but John doesn't give any details of how Satan prompted Judas. In Luke 22 Satan entered into Judas and compelled him to go to the chief priests and ask for money in exchange for his help to have Jesus arrested. It doesn't say in any of the accounts of the gospel why Satan chose to leave Judas for a while. I believe that being in the presence of the Lord Jesus for any extended period of time would have made the devil extremely uncomfortable and it wasn't necessary for him to remain in Judas. When Jesus handed Judas the piece of bread Satan entered Judas again compelling him to carry out the plans he had made with the chief priests.

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28) How many women came to the sepulcher? John 20:1 Only one woman went, Mary Magdalene. Matthew 28:1 Mary Magdalene and the "other Mary" (Jesus’ mother) went.

Mary Magdalene went alone at first and the other women later. Again, the authors use the literary style of compression which can be seen clearly by comparing the end of Luke to the beginning of Acts. Both were written by Luke to Theophilus and he makes no attempt to explain the ascension as recorded in Luke 24.

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29) Mark 16:2 It was sunrise when the two women went to the sepulcher. John 20:1 It was still dark (before sunrise) when Mary Magdalene went alone to the sepulcher.

Mary Magdalene went by herself at first and she left while it was still dark.

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31) How many angels were within the sepulcher? John 20:11-12 two, Mark 16:5 one.

These probably do not refer to the same exact moment since, in John 20, Mary Magdalene went and told Peter and John that the Lord's body was missing.

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32) The Holy Ghost bestowed at Pentecost. Acts 1:5-8 & 2:1-4 The holy Ghost bestowed before Pentecost. John 20:22

The disciples received the Holy Spirit before Pentecost and He indwelled them. They were filled with the Holy Spirit and anointed with power on the day of Pentecost. John 20:22 says Jesus breathed on the disciples and said "receive the Holy Spirit." No mere man could breathe out the Holy Spirit who is referred to at least once in the Old Testament as the breath of God (Job 33:4).

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33) Where did Jesus first appear to the eleven disciples? In a room in Jerusalem. Luke 24:32-37 On a mountain in Galilee. Matthew 28:15-17

He first appeared to them in the upper room. Not all events or details are recorded in any of the four accounts of the gospel and John records the first two appearances in the upper room in Jerusalem and the third on the shore of the Sea of Galilee (John 21:14). Matthew only mentions eleven disciples in Matt. 28 but the appearance on the mountain in Galilee was almost certainly to many people since, at that time, the eleven had no doubt that Jesus rose from the dead (cf. John 21:12, 1 Cor. 15:6).

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35) Can all sins be forgiven? (Acts 13:39) All sins can be forgiven. Great, I’m happy to know God is so merciful, but wait (Mark 3:29) Cursing or blaspheming the Holy Spirit is unforgivable.

The blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is widely misunderstood and the author doesn't examine the context of Jesus' statement in Mark 3 nor does he pick the best verse to contrast with Mark 3:29. Colossians 1:13 says God forgave all our sins and 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Mark 3:29-30 - But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." He said this because they were saying, "He has an evil spirit" (NIV).

Mark’s comment in verse 30 should always be part of any discussion on the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. A poster on another board explained it well:

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In this passage the term refers to the declaration of the Pharisees who had witnessed undeniable evidence that Christ was performing miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit. Yet they attributed the miracles to Satan. In the face of irrefutable evidence they ascribed the work of the Holy Spirit to that of Satan.

Many scholars and theologians agree with this and don't believe the Holy Spirit can be blasphemed today. In his book, Eternal Security, Charles Stanley wrote a chapter about the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and his view agrees with the one above. The burden is on the author of that website to give an explanation of Mark 3:30.
04-24-2009, 09:38 AM
Crispus

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36) The Elijah mystery: (Malachi 4:5) Elijah must return before the final days of the world. (Matthew 11:12-14) Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah. (Matthew 17:12- 13) Jesus insists that Elijah has already come, and everyone understood him to mean John the Baptist. (Mark 9:13) Jesus insists that Elijah has already come. (John 1:21) John the Baptist maintained that he was not Elijah.

This is basically the same question as number 12.

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37) Who purchased the potter’s field? Acts 1:18 The field was purchased by Judas. John 20:1 The potter’s field was purchased by the chief priests.

Judas threw it back into the temple as was prophesied and the chief priests purchased the field. In his commentary on Acts 1:18 Adam Clarke said...

"...in ordinary conversation, we often attribute to a man what is the consequence of his own actions, though such consequence was never designed nor wished for by himself: thus we say of a man embarking in a hazardous enterprise, he is gone to seek his death; of one whose conduct has been ruinous to his reputation, he has disgraced himself."
(The New Testament of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ by Adam Clarke and Daniel Curry, 1883, p. 413)
An important point which is sometimes overlooked is the Greek words which are translated as bought and purchased in both Matt. 27 and Acts 1. The word in Matthew 27 is agorazo and is used to describe making purchases in a market such as those who bought in the temple when Jesus cleared it (Matt. 21:12, Mark 11:15, Luke 19:45; see also 1 Cor. 7:23 and Rev. 18:11). The word in Acts 1 is ktaomai which is sometimes translated as possess, provide or obtained. 'Purchased' is not a literal rendering in Acts 1:18 and IMO it is better translated as obtained or acquired.

From a poster on another discussion board:

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"It is therefore much more likely that Peter is using typical Jewish metaphors in saying that Judas bought a field, whereas it was likely the priests (no reason to disagree with Matthew such as saying he gave the money to someone else and that person bought it)."

My comments: The NIV and NKJV attribute the comments in Acts 1:19-20 to Luke rather than Peter which makes good sense. In verse 19 it says "Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this" so it was unnecessary for Peter to tell his disciples about it. Also if the story of what happened to Judas' body was well known Luke could have interviewed many people who had first or second hand information. Luke also was a close companion of Paul and other Jews and would have been familiar with the prophecy in Zechariah 11:13 that said Yahweh would be valued for thirty pieces of silver. Judas probably did not live in Jerusalem since Jesus called his disciples from Galilee and much of his ministry was there. Judas would not have purchased a field in an area in which he didn't intend to stay and was probably more interested in what happened to Jesus immediately after his arrest.

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38) Paul’s attendants heard the miraculous voice and stood speechless. Acts 9:7 Paul’s attendants did not hear the voice and were prostrate. Acts 22:9 & 26:14

This is one of the favorites of former evangelical preacher turned atheist Dan Barker. Barker says that the Greek word for hear (akou) doesn't mean understand, "hear" can be rendered loosely as "understand" in some special cases but this is done by context only and can't be done by grammar. After reading his article it's clear he has a very good understanding of Greek but is at odds with Greek scholars such as A.T. Robertson, W.E. Vine and W.F. Arndt on this issue. Like many words in Greek and Hebrew akou has more than one definition and at times doesn't just mean physical hearing but also understanding:

He who has ears to hear (akou) let him hear (akou). (Matthew 11:15, NASB, cf. Matt. 13:15-16, Mark 4:9, Luke 8:8, Luke 14:35).

"Do you have eyes but fail to see, and ears but fail to hear (akouo)? And don't you remember?" (Mark 8:18)

"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen (akou) to them.' (Luke 16:29)

Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware (akou) of what the law says? (Galatians 4:21, NIV)

Those who wanted to be under the law knew what the law said. Moses had been preached in every city (Acts 15:21) and the church in Galatia had heard of Paul's previous way of life in Judaism (Gal. 1:13). Paul was questioning if they fully understood what was in the law to which they wanted to subject themselves. In the NASB it says "do you not listen to the law?" (similar to the WEB) and in the ISV and God's Word Translation it's says "are you really listening."

A footnote for Gal. 4:21 in the Net Bible says "The Greek verb ἀκούω (akouw) means "hear, listen to," but by figurative extension it can also mean "obey." It can also refer to the process of comprehension that follows hearing, and that sense fits the context well here."

A verse that is similar to Acts 22:9 is John 12:28 where the voice of God, the Father, sounded like thunder to the crowd with Jesus. The late John F. Walvoord, Professor of Systematic Theology at Dallas Theological Seminary, summed it up well:

"Literally, that clause in 22:9 may be translated, "They did not hear the sound." The NIV correctly translates the verse, because the verb "to hear" with the genitive case may mean "to hear a sound" and with the accusative case "to hear with understanding." The genitive case is employed in 9:7, and the accusative is used in 22:9. So the travelers with Saul heard the sound (9:7) but did not understand what Christ said (22:9)."
(The Bible Knowledge Commentary by John F. Walvoord, and Roy B. Zuck, Wheaton, Illinois: Scripture Press Publications, Inc.) 1983, 1985)
A.T. Robertson was one of the most esteemed Scholars of his time and his comments are also noteworthy:

"The accusative here may be used rather than the genitive as in verse 7 to indicate that those with Paul did not understand what they heard (9:7) just as they beheld the light (22:9), but did not see Jesus (9:7). The difference in cases allows this distinction, though it is not always observed as just noticed about 22:14; 26:14. The verb akouw is used in the sense of understand (Mark 4:33; 1 Corinthians 14:2). It is one of the evidences of the genuineness of this report of Paul's speech that Luke did not try to smooth out apparent discrepancies in details between the words of Paul and his own record already in ch. 9."
(Word Pictures in the New Testament by A.T. Robertson)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DD2014

39) Who bought the Sepulcher? Jacob, Josh 24:32 Abraham, Acts 7:16

Jacob. It was originally given to Abraham but he left the region and by the time his grandson Jacob returned someone had claimed the land because it hadn't been used. Jacob then had to buy the land.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DD2014

40) Was it lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death? "The Jews answered him, we have a law, and by our law he ought to die." John 19:7 "The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death." John 18:31

The Jews believed Jesus had committed blasphemy which was punishable by death under the Mosaic law. See Adam Clarke's commentary on John 18:31 - http://studylight.org/com/acc/view.c...se=31#Joh18_31

Verse 32 says this happened so that the words Jesus had spoken indicating the kind of death he was going to die would be fulfilled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DD2014

41) Has anyone ascended up to heaven? Elijah went up to heaven: "And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." 2 Kings 2:11 "No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man." John 3:13

There are different views on this and I agree with the one at http://www.rationalchristianity.net/contra14.html#142

Quote:

Originally Posted by DD2014

42) Is scripture inspired by God? "all scripture is given by inspiration of God." 2 Timothy 3:16 compared to: "But I speak this by permission and not by commandment." 1 Corinthians 7:6 "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord." 1 Corinthians 7:12 "That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord" 2 Corinthians.

See http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-bibl...ns-refuted.htm - number 79

Also see http://www.rationalchristianity.net/contra14.html#143
04-25-2009, 08:44 AM
Crispus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Previous Crispus

8) Who made the request? (Matthew 20:20-21) Their mother requested that James and John, Zebedee’s children, should sit beside Jesus in his Kingdom. (Mark 10:35-37) James and John, Zebedee’s children, requested that they should sit beside Jesus in his Kingdom.

I accidentally posted the objection twice rather than a response.

Their Mother made the request.

"In a similar way, in the ancient world it was perfectly understood and accepted that actions were often attributed to people when in fact they occurred through their subordinates or emissaries-in this case through the Jewish people."
(Craig Blomberg in The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel, 1998, p. 46)
In the case of James and John it was the request was made by someone who had some authority over them, that is their Mother. The same is true of the Centurion though it was through his emissary (Matt. 8:5-9, Luke 7:2-10).