Trying to Disprove the Tribulation Sept. 14, 2015 to Aug. 7, 2022
re: Rethinker at apologetics.com/forums
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Originally Posted by Rethinker
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Originally Posted by Parture
This has never been tried before, for never has the trifecta of Rev. 6.12 come into being in alignment with the Tetrads of 1949/50 and 1967/68 for the commencement of the Tribulation on the 120th Jubilee in 2015. No prophecy has ever had a probability of failure of less than 1 in 70,000,000 or even come close to that.
my bible has:
I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood;
I don't see your 1 in 70 million chance here. Unless you mean that your interpretation of this verse as referencing some solar eclipse in 2015 has a 1 in 70 million chance of credulity.
going back to your original post you wrote:
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Sometimes several centuries can go by in which there are none. They are even more rare when they fall on Passover, Tabernacles and again, on Passover and Tabernacles. In 1949/50 and 1967/68 was when just such lunar eclipses occurred. Israel became a nation May 14, 1948 and the armistice treatise was signed 1949. Israel entered Jerusalem on June 7, 1967. The next Total Lunar Tetrad on feast days is 2014/15 (8th since Christ). There won't be another till 2582/83. If the Tetrad is associated with the return of Christ because it is associated with the return of Israel, would it take over 600 years from 1948 for Jesus to return? I don't think so. Out of the 5 feast Tetrads since Christ before the 20th century, there was only one century which had two Tetrads so that is about a 5% (1/19) chance the 20th century could have two Tetrads. The probability one of the Tetrads would fall on either 1949/50 or 1967/68 is a 2% (2/100) chance and the other Tetrad on the remaining date is a 1% (1/99) chance. So the probability the Tetrad could fall on these two necessary dates in the 20th century was 5% x 2% x 1% = 1 in 100,000 chance.
your probability is wrong here. There are an near infinite amount of these tetrads in the future. The odds that the 2014/2015 one is the one that signals the return of Christ is 1 in near infinite.
You have simply assumed that it is because you think that
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If the Tetrad is associated with the return of Christ because it is associated with the return of Israel, would it take over 600 years from 1948 for Jesus to return?
Maybe. So far its taken over 2000 years since the war of ad 70 for Jesus to return. The destruction of Jerusalem is much more central to the book of revelation than series of lunar eclipses. So your "prophecy that has a 1 in 70 million chance of being wrong" is all smoke and mirrors.
-rethinker
Indeed the probability has a 1 in 70,000,000 chance of failure since Rev. 6.12 occurs right before the Tribulation. If you don't read the Bible properly you will not see what God wants you to see. There is a 1 in 100,000 chance the two Tetrads were to fall on 1949/50 and 1967/68, then a 1 in 700 change the H3 is right in front of the 2014/15 Tetrad as required by Rev. 6.12. Not sure why I have to repeat this again, since it has already been stated many times. You're showing a lack of conscientiousness making me repeat this again by your misunderstanding of it as you admit you "don't see...the 1 in 70,000,000 chance here". The H3 Solar Eclipse is not "some eclipse" as you say, but it is the rarest kind (4th since Christ). Think about that.
You're wrong when you accuse falsely, "Your probability is wrong here. There are an near infinite amount of these tetrads in the future". Satan accuses even with the truth, but misrepresents in doing so. That there are an infinite number is irrelevant, since Matt. 24.32-33 says when Israel becomes a nation again, the Tribulation and Jesus' return will be soon. We can expect this to be within 70 to 80 years at the most. There are 75 years from 1948 to 2022 when Jesus returns. "The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away" (Ps. 90.10). It looks like Jesus returns in Person possibly later than 70 years after 1948, but not after 80 years. Who cares if there are more Tetrads in future, though we know the Tribulation starts 2015 because the next Tetrad is not till 2582/83 over 600 years after Israel becomes a nation. That in no way should be construed as the soon return of Jesus Christ. In fact, the reason why this one is so far out is because God is telling us the one in 2014/15 is the one. If ther was one, perhaps in the year 2030 it could give us some doubt.
The Tribulation is surrounded by events before and after the world will be deceived by to take their eye off the return of Jesus: a) 2012 hype, and 2) the 2029-36 comet approaching earth within 25,000 miles on its first run-by earth.
Your confusion stems from the fact you think the probability has to do with the probability of the 2014/15 Tetrad which is not the case at all. The first component of the probability is for the Tetrads to fall exactly on the two key dates when Israel became a nation and when Israel entered Jerusalem. This is the most important prophetic event for the return of Jesus that we know His return is near. The second component is of course the linking of the necessary unique solar eclipse to the unique lunar eclipse in Rev. 6.12 that occurs right before the Tribulation. All of this would fail, as well, if there was not a major great earthquake preceding the these two eclipses, but we find the Haiti earthquake, the 5th worst natural disaster in human history, in 2010. It all fits.
70 AD is not the key, but the Jubilees to be more precise since there needs be 120 Jubilees or 6000 years for the Sabbath thousand year rest to begin. Hence, there are 120 Jubilees from 3986 BC by adding the ages up in the Bible to 2015. 70 AD was predicted in Dan. 9.26 but that is just the beginning of birth pangs. Luke only said "this is that" in Acts 2. According to your mistaken calculation you are adding 2000 years to 70 AD, when you should be adding 2000 years from the 2015 Jubilee. God considers the destruction of the 1st and 2nd Temples very mournful and important because He reigns in the Temple on earth for 1000 years when He returns. And you know the key date is for Israel to become a nation because Ezekiel's prophecy takes us to exactly May, 1948 amazingly! Totally amazing! There are no maybes here, since these things are fully proven. You're attempting smoke and mirros to prevent people and yourself from seeing these things because you're an unregenerate pretending to be a Christian (false tares in Christendom in Matt. 13 trying to look like saved wheat) as your arguments rely on sinning bearing false witness, saying things that are not said, and brutally mireading God's word.
In fact the probability is 100% because there are 2,520 days from Sept. 14, 2015 to Aug. 7, 2015 Tisha B'Av AND the H3-Tetrad combo is the 1st since Christ. I looked down through thousands of years and it doesn't happen again that I can find.
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In my mind here's how the probabilities really go:
1) The probability that the sign of Jesus' return will be that there are 4 lunar eclipses in a 2 year period = zero%
2) The probability that Parture is the only person in the history of biblical interpretation that has truly understood the book of revelation and the olivet discourse = Zero%
3) The probability that Israel has to become a nation with the temple rebuilt prior to Jesus return = zero% since Jesus specifically says that the destruction and descecration of the temple is the sign of the end times (matthew 24 - when he tells the disciples that the abomination that causes desolation is the time to run from jerusalem and that event happened in 68 AD) so the probability of this prediction coming true in 2015 is zero% since it already was fulfilled in 68 AD.
Lets see how the math adds up:
Zero% times Zero% times Zero% = ZERO PERCENT not 1 in 70 million.
- rethinker
That makes no sense at all, since the return of Jesus is associated with these signs in the heavens, not without them, so your zero percent chance is a false calculation. The probability the parousia of Christ beginning with a feast Tetrad is a 1 in 100,000 chance because that is the odds for the Tetrad to fall on Israel's two key dates. But Rev. 6.12 also requires a unique solar eclipse, so the probability of one occuring right in front of a Tetrad within 70 to 80 years after Israel becomes a nation is 1 in 700 because there are 3 since Christ before then. Hence, the total probability is a 1 in 70,00,000 probability the Tribulation will not be Sept. 14, 2015 Feast of Trumpets to Aug. 7, 2022 Tisha B'Av for a total of necessarily 2,520 days (7 x 360) of Daniel's last seven (Dan. 9.27).
The probability is not the only person who knows, but the first person who knows. There is a 100% chance someone knows first. I happen to know first. The probability Daniel was the first person who knew when Jesus would pay for our sins was extremely low just as it is very low that I am the first person to know when Jesus returns. That's a side bet which does not supersede or interfere with the evidence of the H3 Solar Eclipse and Lunar Tetrad in Rev. 6.12. In fact the odds are even better than 1 in 70,000,000 of being wrong. Thank you for leading me to think about this just now.
There have been 5 earthquakes since Jesus that are in the top 10 natural disasters of all time. Haiti 2010 was the fifth worst, so the odds of it occurring in 2010, 2011 or 2012 in front of the two eclipses in Rev. 6.12 is (5 earthquakes x 3 possible years)/2009 years (if we assume for easy of reference 1 AD as the starting possible candidate year). So that's a 0.0075 probability or a 1 in 134 chance. 1/134 x 1/70,000,000 comes to a 1 in 9.4 billion chance. Wow! I am so glad I had this talk with you because the odds just got better.
Matthew 24 doesn't say the Temple is destroyed but that an idol is erected (Matt. 24.15), and the desolations are Israel, Jerusalem and the Temple overrun, not the destruction of the 3rd Temple. How can the Antichrist reign in a destroyed Temple? The desolations to the end are war and strife and violating land. 2 Thess. 2.4 has the Temple built by the time of the last 1260 days, "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God" (2 Thess. 2.4). And again, "but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample over the holy city for forty-two months" (Rev. 11.2). The Temple is not destroyed just overrun as desolations come upon the city of Israel as they did in 70 AD (Dan. 9.26).
You're kicking against the gods of gloriously wonderful evidence in the Scriptures in alignment with the signs we are to watch for in the heavens and on earth. It's time you give your life to Christ so that you can be born-again. When you are born-again, you will stop fighting the truth, or at least begin to.
70 AD is already addressed in Matt. 24.2 with the rest of the verses to follow thereafter. Study what each of these verses pertain to line by line very specifically, http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Matthew_24.htm
The Temple is destroyed in Matt. 24.2 not in verse 15 since in the latter it is still standing, thus it was finished being constructed with 2300 days left into the 7 year Tribulation (Dan. 8.14). Moreover, the return of Jesus is associated with the events in Revelation such as in Dan. 9.24; and in Matt. 24.15-31 for the Jews, as well as Matt. 24.32-Matt. 25.30 for the Church and Matt. 25.31-46 for the Gentile nations.
Since all your calculations are wrong, then you are wrong. Time to repent. Amen.
Did this happen in 70 AD? "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. . For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be" (Matt. 24.22,27). Nope!
Judea had to flee in 70 AD, but also at the end of this age when the False Prophet erects an idol of the Antichrist in the 3rd Temple. "Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains" (Matt. 24.16). My prayers go out to you.
