We are Appointed Once to Die

[John]

God is in Heaven right? God took Enoch to walk with Him...that would be in Heaven.

When God showed Stephen a glimpse of Heaven during his stoning, was God teasing Stephen by saying.....this is what Heaven is like, but you have to go to sleep in your grave for awhile before you can experience this place? Of course God wouldn't tease him like that.

You say it doesn't happen immediately for Eccl 12:7! How do you know that? Are you guessing? It seems very straightforward to me...the body returns to the dust and the soul goes to Heaven. Why are you adding to this verse?

You're misreading the Bible. [Gen 5:23-24 NLT] 23 Enoch lived 365 years, 24 walking in close fellowship with God. Then one day he disappeared, because God took him.

Eccl. 12.7 says "will" not has.

Enoch walked closely with God on earth, not physically in heaven. Also showing visions doesn't mean a person is in heaven. Resurrection has not taken place giving a new body. There is no need to sleep to receive visions. You asked how do we know Eccl. 12.7 doesn't happen immediately? Because as was said several times which you avoid is 1 Thess. 4.14-18 says the resurrection happens together. So no party going in heaven without a body. That's crazy if you just take a second to think about it. I can't remember what verse but the Bible says you can't come before the High Priest naked, that is, without a body. Enoch and Elijah are the Two Witnesses. We are appointed once to die the Bible says. They have not died yet. People who are yet to die do not go to Heaven.

[Mark]

You can't compare humans with Jesus.

So where do you think God took Enoch? God is in Heaven right?

Think this through intelligently and spiritually. When Jesus died on the cross He didn't go up to Paradise above but to Paradise below, the good side of Hades, Abraham's bosom. He said He would meet the repentant thief down there. He was resurrected 3 days later. Jesus wasn't resurrected from Heaven. He was in Paradise below to meet the saints who have died. Likewise there is a place where Enoch and Elijah went but it was not Heaven because obviously they are yet to die as the Two Witnesses. People are not coming down from Heaven to die. I could never accept that. Nor can I accept a party going on in Heaven right now without a body. Even angels have bodies, but you claim there is a bodiless party going on in Heaven. That's crazy. You can't come before the High Priest naked so stop trying.

Since Jesus has been resurrected WITH A BODY that has already died He is at the right hand of the Father in 3rd Heaven. Only at the partial rapture (start of the 1st Trumpet), first rapture according to readiness, are some people raptured alive who kept the Word of His patience, are prayerful and watchful, keep the conduct of Matt. 5-7 and are accounted worthy to escape the hour of trial that is to come upon the whole earth (Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10, Matt. 24.40-42). Then those who are "alive and left" at the start of the 7th Trumpet are taken (1 Thess. 4.14-18).

You can compare anything. We can compare humans who are not God with Jesus who is God. Jesus was fully human and fully God. He was the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Jesus was fully human and fully God. He became like one of us to show us how to live and show perfect obedience to the Father. Compare that. We should be Christlike.

"For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in A RESURRECTION LIKE HIS." (Rom. 6.5)

“If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also GIVE LIFE TO YOUR MORTAL BODIES through his Spirit who dwells in you.” (Rom. 8.11)