Re: http://www.youtube.com/user/Converted2Islam
Originally Posted by
Converted2Islam
Ok you have 66 books and the Catholics have 73 and the Eastern Othodox have even more, who is right?
I know this might be hard to understand, but for now, understand the explanation; later see if it holds to be true or not. We know for a fact that 66 books are the exact number of God's word, not more, nor less, because those other books that try to be God's word also, can be shown to not be in agreement with the 66. Logic dictates to be part of God's word it must agree with the 66 since all 66 agree with each other. Also, 6 is the number of Satan and 6 is the number of man because man loves salvation by works and Satan's ways; but God's redemptive design separates that union and shows man can't save himself by the law. God has to come down to us for us to be saved and bring us up to Him.
Also, do you have the original Bible manuscripts? If not, how can you be sure what you're reading in the Bible is actually the authentic text read by the Prophets of old? Is this a blind faith you must uphold or do you have original manscripts? In Islam was have the original Qur'an and no need for blind faith.
There are no original papyrus' preserved in antiquity so I think that is an unreasonable request to reject what is said, because you would have to throw out all history then. We do have about 15 original papyrus copies in the 2nd century and 2 from the 1st century. They could be originals, but we just don't know.
Fortunately the Bible is the most well attested and copied material from antiquity, so Textual Criticism takes us right back to the source. The same problem exists for the Qur'an as well though it has less copies to rely on, less multiple corroboration, less languages. It's just one guy in a cave all by himself, whereas the Bible has 40 authors in agreement over 1500 years. You only have a copy of a copy after Muhammad died. We can't even sure he wrote all the Qur'an. Right now all you show is blind faith, because you can't come along six centuries later and say Jesus didn't die on the cross without anything to support your claim. That's disingenuous and shutting your mind down as one who would rather go to Hell. You will go to Hell because you had nothing to support your beliefs about Jesus.
To solve your problem, Christians rely on the Minimal Facts Approach which simply states since almost all skeptical scholars, including Muslim scholars, concede Paul really wrote 1 Cor. 15, Gal. 1 & 2, we can be confident Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected. Paul said he met Peter, James and John who were original eyewitnesses of the life, death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. So you can be confident they truly believed it, since people don't die for something they know to be a lie. Compare this to Islam where you have to have blind faith that Jesus didn't die on the cross, contrary to multiple supported evidence of the various NT texts. And Polycarp was a student of John and confirmed these facts. As well, Clement of Rome, knew Peter and confirmed these findings also. There is other corroboration from early church fathers and non-Christian sources. I have 17 early non-Christian sources that talk about Jesus. 12 speak of Jesus dying. 7 of them refer to His deity. And 7 talk about His resurrection.
Actually Allah (swt) did not deceive the disciples after the alleged death of Prophet Jesus (p) because they continued to believe in him as Messiah and that belief never changed. So they were not deceived in the big picture.
A mere prophet is not a Messiah, but the OT record is clear, the OT Messiah that was to come was God Himself incarnate. Only God can pay for the sins of mankind. Furthermore, the OT record admits the Messiah was to die on the cross, his hands to be pierced and hung on a tree, which you have not accounted for either. It is in the verses you will have to renounce Islam if you love the truth.
Salvation is not by works in Islam, but its a free gift from Allah. Yet that free gift does require that we accept Allah's plan and way of life which He laid down for mankind, that is Islam.
That is doubletalk.The Bible says be "not doubletongued" (1 Tim. 3.8). Don't say one thing and mean another. A free gift can't be worked for otherwise it is something earned. The Bible always contrasts faith with works.
For Muslims faith and good deeds are both components of each other. Jesus did not believe in a 'faith only" theory as Christians do today. That developed later from Paul onwards, Jesus was a Law follower just as Muslims are today.
Faith and works is still works. In Christianity, works flow from faith unto rewards, but to receive initial salvation or to remain saved, works play no part, because man is a sinner and can't save himself, nor can he lose His salvation. If salvation was dependent on works, no person could be saved. If salvation could be lost, no person could remain saved, because we would all falter at some point. This takes humility to accept when you place yourself next to a God who is eternally greater than you. Ancient Israel taught faith also, not by works. The sacrifices themselves could not save, just remove guilt as they were a temporary measure instituted by God to point to the once-for-all sacrifice. Whether looking to the cross or back at the cross, salvation is by the cross. You would have to have the faith of Abraham to be saved. Abel gave God a faith offering whereas Cain worked for his salvation. He was jealous because God rejected his offering and killed Abel as Muslims do at Chop Chop Square on Fridays, cutting peoples' heads off, and blowing people up as suicide mass murderers; and the crusades of Islam across Europe and Asia, and 911. You are a bad guys, and you are going to Hell, unless you come to the cross as helpless sinners to receive the Lord Jesus as Savior.
Jesus taught clearly in the Scriptures, justification by faith. We are saved by faith, not by works, lest anyone should boast. Do you sense the great pride in your heart that you think your works can save you? I would feel ugly inside if I had that arrogance! Your conscience hasn't been quickened to have the same sense. Islam is just all other religions, salvation by works of the flesh.
"And he [Jesus] said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Luke 7.50).
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" (Eph. 2.8).
Jesus said He came to fill up the law; now we live by the Spirit of the law. To try to keep the law in your own strength, you will die by the law and go to Hell; but live by the Spirit of the law you will be saved in the one Who came to fulfill it.
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil" (Matt. 5.17). If Jesus was just a man only, He could not fulfill the law, because no man can. Only God can. Jesus must be God.
Your sin gets punished in in Hell, but God is so gracious, He takes that sin upon Himself by what Jesus did for you on the cross. To deny this is to deny the only way of salvation.
Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14.16).
"I [Jesus] am the Lord, and there is no other Savior" (Is. 43.11).
If you try to live by the law, you will die by the law, for no man can keep it. If you don't understand this, read the Old Testament, and your heart will be touched.
Read the letter of James, there is no faith without works. Aren't you required to accept Jesus into your heart, isn't that a work? If you don't do that work Christianity says your doomed!
Read the letter of James and realize that what James is saying that works naturally flow from faith, not that you need works to be initially saved.
Are faith and works contrasted as opposites? "By grace are ye saved, through faith;...not of works" (Eph. 2.8-9); "But to him that worketh not, but believeth..." (Rom. 4.5).
Christianity teaches once-saved-always-saved. He said, "I give unto them [my sheep] eternal life; and they shall NEVER perish" (John 10.28).
Though we can lose rewards by not returning with Christ during the 1000 year reign on earth, we can't lose life. After the 1000 years all believers will be in the New City. This is after the non-overcomer believers are disciplined for the 1000 years in "outer darkness" (outside the light of rewards of reigning with Christ during the 1000 years), and the overcomer believers receive their reward of reigning for the 1000 years.
Jesus is not God, Mark 13:32 says so. So to have him pinned on a cross has no impact on our salvation. Again, Allah is Saviour!
Peace
C2I
"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father" (Mark 13.32)
Understand why Jesus said this. Contrast what Jesus said: "I alone am the one who blots out your sins for my own sake" (Is. 43.25). When Jesus saw their faith, he said "friend, your sins are forgiven" (Luke 5.20). "They began thinking, 'Who is this man who speaks blasphemy?' Only God can forgive sins" (Luke 5.21).
Think about that for a moment. Jesus is making Himself out to be God and then the Pharisees accuse Him of the same. If Jesus is just a prophet then he is being sinful, making himself out to be God when He is not. But if He is God, then He is not what Islam says just a prophet. There is only one road to take here: repent of Islam, and come to the cross as a helpless sinner and receive Jesus as your Lord and Savior, and so shall you be saved! And I have gained a brother in Christ.
Jesus said He is the great I AM, the first and the last. Only God is first and last.
Why did Jesus say He doesn't know when He is going to return?
Jesus said, "The Christ [Jesus]...they see the Son of man [Jesus] coming in the clouds with great power and glory" (Mark 13.21,26). Only God comes with great power and glory! Jesus "shall he send his angels" (v.27). How can a mere prophet have angels? The angels were created before men. God existed before angels.
Now we can understand why Jesus said what He said in Mark 13.23. Jesus emptied Himself of His independent attributes in the Trinity to be fully man. Here is the proof as follows...
"Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient [even] unto death, yea, the death of the cross. Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name; that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven and [things] on earth and [things] under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2.5-11).
“As regards to the Godhead, the Son and the Father are co-equal; but His being the Lord is rewarded Him by God. The Lord Jesus Christ was made Lord only after He emptied Himself. His deity derives from who He is, for His being God is His inherent nature. His being Lord, though, issues out of what He has done. He was exalted and rewarded by God to be the Lord only after He forsook His glory and maintained the perfect role of obedience. As regards Himself, He is God; as regards reward, He is Lord. His Lordship did not exist originally in the Godhead.
The passage in Philippians 2 is most difficult to explain, for it is most controversial besides being most holy. Let's remove our shoes and stand on holy ground as we review the Scripture. It seems as though at the beginning a council was held within the Godhead. God conceived a plan to create the universe. In that plan the Godhead agreed to have authority represented by the Father. But authority cannot exist alone. God must therefore find obedience in the universe. Two living beings were to be created: angels (spirits) and men (living souls). According to His foreknowledge God foresaw the rebellion of the angels and the fall of men; hence He was unable to establish His authority in angels or in the Adamic race. Consequently, within the Godhead perfect accord was reached that authority would be reached by the obedience of the Son. From this come the distinctive operations of God the Father and God the Son. One day God the Son emptied himself, and being born in the likeness of men. He became the symbol of obedience. Inasmuch as rebellion came from the created beings, so obedience must now be established in the created being. Man sinned and rebelled; therefore the authority of God must be erected on man’s obedience.
This explains why the Lord came to the world and was made as one of the created men”.
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