Popularity of Historicism

[PeteWaldo]

Jesus will be in the Temple in Jerusalem when He reigns on Earth.

I see.

Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

So then the temple that Jesus rebuilt in 3 days doesn't count anymore because Jesus work on the cross was incomplete or insufficient?

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

This temple

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

During the millennial kingdom the New Jerusalem above can't come down all the way because the Temple still remains on earth, but after the 1000 years there is no need for a Temple, because God and the Lamb will be the temple in the center of the New City. By the way the Temple in the OT represents our spirit, soul and body as the Holy of Holies, the Holy Place and the Outer Court.

All that inspired from a single verse, found in the figurative language of a prophetic vision, as a definite doctrine built upon an indefinite plural.

[Nottheworld]

Apply Acts 17.24 correctly. Since Jesus is returning to be on earth just as He left (Acts 1.11) then he is going to be here awhile. He is not going to leave as soon as He returns. Therefore, He that "dwelleth not in temples made with hands" is the temple in Heaven. This does not preclude His Son from coming to die on the cross for our sins, turn over the money changer's tables in the temple on earth or to reign on earth from the temple in Jerusalem for 1000 years before the New City on the New Earth commences. It seems to me your faith is dead because you don't have faith to believe Jesus can do this. That's why you try to allegorize a literal Bible.

Why would Jesus' body, His temple, and atoning sacrifice and the pearl of great price (the temple that is the Church of the body of Christ) not count anymore because He is going to return and reign on earth for 1000 years? I don't see the connection.

Plus, I think you are a contradicting yourself, because you are arguing for no millennial kingdom but elsewhere said you are undecided: "I don't teach one way or the other in regard to the millennial reign." You sound like a ball of confusion. Who is the author of confusion? Certainly not God but Satan. If you are undecided why do you never argue for the millennial reign of Christ too? The Bible says be "not doubletongued" (1 Tim. 3.8).

I still don't know what this figurative indefinite plural is you are talking about. Can you try to be more specific and less vague? So am I to take it that you don't believe the spirit is like the Holy of Holies where the ark is kept, the soul is like the Holy Spirit (Tent of meeting) and our body is represented by the outer court of the Temple? If that is your position, let's talk about it, for there are many verses we can use as OT types for the Temple and our Temple of our spirit, soul and body.

We commune with our High Priest who goes in the Holy of Holies once a year. He indwells our spirit coming down between the cherubim and sheds light in that dark place unseen by any human eyes. In our spirit, the law in the ark convicts our conscience through our intuition. When Jesus died on the cross, the altar in the outer court is where the sacrifice is slain physically atoning for our sins in the flesh. And in the Tent of meeting, the Holy Place of our soul, is where various activities of mind, will and emotion take place such as prayers of the saints taken up in the burning incense.

[PeteWaldo]

The Year-Day Theory

Recently the study of prophecy had earned for itself a bad reputation among believers because of the so-called year-day theory. According to this theory, many numbers of days in the Scriptures are computed as though a day were a year [even Isaac Newton made this mistake with all kinds of calculations], thus fostering predictions as to the precise date for the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ....

"The folly of interpreters has been to foretell times and things by this prophecy [Revelation], as if God designed to make them prophets. By this rashness they have not only exposed themselves, but brought the prophecy also into contempt. The design of God was much otherwise. He gave this and the prophecies of the Old Testament, not to gratify men's curiosities by enabling them to foreknow things, but that after they were fulfilled they might be interpreted by the event, and his own providence, not the interpreters', be then manifested thereby to the world. For the event of things predicted many ages before will then be a convincing argument that the world is governed by Providence." - Sir Isaac Newton

2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

But turn on the TV and listen to the futurists and dispensationalists! "88 reasons Jesus is coming in 1988", and on and on ad nauseum throughout the following decades.

All of them, 19th century John Nelson Darby styled futurists. (widely acknowledged as "The Father of Modern Dispensationalism")

[Nottheworld]

"The folly of interpreters has been to foretell times and things by this prophecy [Revelation], as if God designed to make them prophets. By this rashness they have not only exposed themselves, but brought the prophecy also into contempt. The design of God was much otherwise. He gave this and the prophecies of the Old Testament, not to gratify men's curiosities by enabling them to foreknow things, but that after they were fulfilled they might be interpreted by the event, and his own providence, not the interpreters', be then manifested thereby to the world. For the event of things predicted many ages before will then be a convincing argument that the world is governed by Providence." - Sir Isaac Newton

Prophets are not be known (Eph. 4.11) by their prophecy? Knowing God's providence and who are the prophets is not a mutually exclusive affair. You can have both as being true. We should know who is in the work for the Church and by so knowing we observe more of God's providence. Since Newton's prophecies failed, we know he was falsely prophesying just as we know you are falsely prophesying because nothing happened in 1978 as you predicted and you contradict yourself because you change up "time, times and half" to be 1260 years sometimes and other times you change into 2500 years, altering the text that is contradictory. It would mean John was deceived also. In the 1335th year bring us to 2023. Newton has 2060. When these days pass and Jesus does not return or returns sooner, we can know with more proof you are false prophet. 1948 and 1967 Jesus did not return either. There were still wars and rumors of wars. You directly violate God's word which says...

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only" (Matt. 24.36). So you can't predict a year, but you can know as you approach the season (Matt. 24.33). The Bible repeatedly warns us about trying to set a date for the return of Christ (Mark 13.32-33). Amillennialism is teaching a "false Christ" with their dates of 1948, 1967, 1978, 2012, and 2060. While you approach the season you can know when Jesus returns only, and when you are in the Tribulation you can count down the 7 years too (1 Thess. 5.2,4) though amillennialists will be oblivious to what is happening because they have another date in mind. You couldn't have know years in advance based on amillennial calculations. Believers will know by the trumpets of the Tribulation when they are upon us and being in 1000 years after which the earth is burnt up (2 Pet. 3.10). We are not to speculate when Jesus will return-what amillennialists constantly do. Rather, we are to be ready at all times for His return (Matt. 24.42-44; Luke 21.28; 1 Thess. 5:6).

2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Amillennialists are "high minded", "ever learning" about their prophecies that never come true and "never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." If you are an amillennialist after you read all this, repent. As painful as it is to accept premillennial, slowly give into its precepts.

But turn on the TV and listen to the futurists and dispensationalists! "88 reasons Jesus is coming in 1988", and on and on ad nauseum throughout the following decades.

All of them, 19th century John Nelson Darby styled futurists. (widely acknowledged as "The Father of Modern Dispensationalism")

Both are sinning in their own way. I don't have the problem of amillennialists because I don't violate God's word about times, time and half, nor the 1000 years. Nor do I violate the futurists who are not abiding in the word of God which says we can't know when Jesus returns until it is nearly upon us. I have said that Jesus must return before the year 2100. I say this because Israel has already been a nation (the prophecy fulfilled) for over 60 years. Jesus said when Israel because a nation again, the time is near (Matt. 24.32) By 2100 it will be 150 years. Things happening around us are showing interesting data. The debt/gdp of countries has never in history been this high before. Money is being printed at the fastest rate ever. We have hit peak oil. Nuclear proliferation is wide spread with over 400 nuclear power plants in the world and at least 400 more in the planning stages. Oil will be over $200 soon, the battle of Armageddon over oil and hostility towards Israel is near.

Did you find any false prophecies by John Darby like for Isaac Newton? I don't agree with him that the whole Church is raptured before the Tribulation since first rapture is according to readiness. The believers not taken but left (Matt. 24.40-41) are raptured before the bowls of the 7th trumpet. They don't enter into the last 24 months (3rd woe or 7th trumpet) which is the wrath of God. Verses that support this are by the conditional statements given in Matt. 24.42, Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10, 7.9 (before the trumpets) and 12.5 for first rapture; and pre-wrath rapture is at the sounding of the last trumpet for the general resurrection shown in Rev. 11.15, 14.14-16.

[Churchwork]

The Sabbath Year foreshadows the time when creation will be delivered from the bondage of corruption.

"You are to consecrate the fiftieth year and proclaim freedom in the land for all its inhabitants. It will be your Jubilee, when each of you is to return to his property and each of you to his clan" (Lev. 25.10).

"In the hope that the creation itself will also be set free from the bondage of corruption into the glorious freedom of God's children" (Rom. 8.21).

This is the regeneration of the world with Jesus' throne on Earth during the millennial kingdom.

"And Jesus replied, 'I assure you that when I, the Son of Man, sit upon my glorious throne in the Kingdom, you who have been my followers will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel'." (Matt. 19.28).