If there is physics outside of the universe then that implies an infinite regress, but you would have happened already, having had an eternity to do. And if there is no cause then you wouldn't have come into being.
You keep asking why you would have happened already after it was already said why: because you had an eternity to come into being before now. Infinite possibilities doesn't change that, it would still be infinite regress having had an eternity. It is also true you would have never existed because an eternity would still being going before this point. Infinite regress contradicts itself.Why would I have happened already? Saying because I had an eternity to do so doesn't explain why I must have happened already. If possibilities are infinite, then an infinite amount of things other than myself could have existed before me. Tell me why the existence of an infinite amount of things that are not me, is impossible before my actual existence in an infinite regress. Saying because I would have happened already since I had an eternity to do so is not an answer, it's just repeating your assertion. Keep in mind that I am not saying the universe has an actual infinite regress of linear causes and effects, I'm just pointing out that your logic is faulty.
Why ask this question? after it was already explained why both would be true and thus contradict each other. Both show infinite regress is false and because they are self-contradictory also. That's exactly what one needs in showing your faith is false. I am not just saying it, but showed you the reason why which you are avoiding.Again, how is it both true that with infinite regress I would have happened already and I would never have existed? Why can't one be true and the other false, or neither be true, because I exist right now? How do you prove it? Just saying it is so doesn't make it so.
Infinite regress is an eternity of the past if it were true. It is not an eternity of the future, because this point would never have been reached since infinite regress would still be going on. And there would be no present moment because it would have happened already having had an eternity to do so. Your mistaken assumption is if a past eternity existed this point would be reached. It's not so, since the past eternity would still be going on for eternity to never reach this point. And of course, you would have happened already too since you had an eternity to come into being. It's a contradiction.How is it possible for eternity to exist in the infinite regress model? The only way it can exist, is with a present moment, an infinite past, and infinite future. So why would it be impossible for this present moment to exist if the infinite past led up to this moment? Keep in mind the infinite past is always going to lead up to a present moment in eternity, whether it be this one or another.
Why shut your mind down to the fact that "I gave you the post which was prior to our current discussion about it. I probably posted this a dozen times already"?Yeah I wanted you to show me a post where you mentioned it previous to the post which I said was the first time you mentioned I would not exist now. And you never did.
You can only take it more ways than one if you read into it more than what is plainly stated. My advice would be to less assuming. "Already happened" means before, not now. You just don't think carefully. The superbowl that is happening now is not the superbowl that happened before. You again assume. What you typed on the keyboard before is not the same as now. That which already happened has happened.I know there were many post where you said "you would have happened already having had an eternity to do so." But that statement can be taken more ways than one, and since you never clarified which one you meant, I took it how I first understood it. Furthermore, already does not mean "it should have happened already and thus, not now." The superbowl has happened already, and guess what, it's happening again. I have typed on the key board already, and guess what, it is happening right now. Things that have already happened does not mean they won't happen again, all it means is that it occurred once in the past.
Obviously you are all talk because in reality you don't apply syllogisms properly.Do you know what writing a logical argument in syllogism form means? Obviously not.
I said the universe is space and time. Six or half a dozen of the other. You are again imply infinite regress because you said "the non-universe begins". That which "begins" demands a cause. If you want to play with Russian dolls one inside another that's still infinite regress which is false.Ask any physicist if the universe exists in space-time, and they will tell you that it does not. They will tell you space-time exists in the universe. It is very simple to understand, but you seem to have trouble with basic scientific concepts. If the universe existed in space-time, what would separate the inside of the universe from the outside of the universe? There would be no way to distinguish where the universe ends, and the non-universe begins, because space-time is connected with no dividing boundaries. Since our universe does not exist in space-time, we conclude that our universe is finite, and it ends where space-time does not exist.
There are no scientists who think cause and effect don't exist in a quantum singularity, otherwise they would just close up shop and stop trying to find the cause. And if there was no cause we would not have come into being. But I am glad you admitted "the universe does not...have infinite regress" so we don't need to talk about infinite regress anymore after all this time talking about it when you didn't believe in it anyhow. That's funny. It's funny how atheists and agnostics will switch back and forth from infinite regress to something from nothing and then back again. Other words you use that betray you are "until". "Until" implies a cause since something can't come out of non-existence. The law of cause and effect remains true in all natural phenomena from smallest particle to the largest system. We have trillions and trillions of cause and effects to support this, and no hard evidence something comes from nothing, so nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space.I am saying the universe does not appear to have infinite regress in which every effect in the universe has a necessary antecedent cause for eternity. Linear cause and effect cease to exist in a quantum singularity. To ask what caused the singularity is to preform a categorical error. Cause and effect as we know the concept did not exist until the big bang. It is impossible for us to fathom the dynamics of a quantum singularity and it's environment, and it is erroneous to demand that our idea of physics be applied to such a phenomena.
I realize you are doing the old switcheroo trick, but your first finite system can't come from nothing, that is, non-existence, but then you betray yourself again, because you said "then naturally there must be larger system than that" and so on and so on, as you said, "well then there is one larger than that and so on" and so on and so on. Then the hook comes when you said, "all that means is there has to be one system that is not finite" which is infinite regress--the very thing you said you were not trying to support. So funny! Then comes your false humility that cause and effect might not be true because you think things are too complicated after your theory you just suggested has cause and effect in an infinite regress. I am getting whiplash from your doubletalk.It's not infinite regress because I never said there was an infinite amount of finite systems. If the larger system to our universe is finite as well, then naturally there must be a larger system than that. And if that system is finite, well then there is one larger than that and so on. All that means is there has to be one system that is not finite, and that system is reality itself. Reality is an incomprehensibly vast existence that appears to contain a seemingly infinite amount of systems. But it only appears that way from our extremely limited perspective. From our perspective it appears as infinite regress because we view things as past, present, and future dictated by linear cause and effect. But our perspective is so limited, that us trying to understand these larger systems is like a single cell organism in a petri-dish trying to understand cosmology. Our knowledge and understanding is not capable of grasping concepts that we have no idea exist, much like the single cell organism does not have the capacity to comprehend the theory of general relativity or the big bang.
If there was no cause then you would never have existed; and you can't come from nothing or start up all by yourself. Silly. You don't realize it but you are trying to be God, because you are always going to have an excuse when the evidence is clearly in. You demand effectively that you need to be all-knowing to know, but only God could be all knowing. Obviously you are not God since God is not a doubletalker. The thing is we do know, because nature can't start up from nothing nor always have existed; hence, the uncreated Creator. What is really disingenuous in all of this I think is you resort to quantum particles, the most complicated thing ever known to man, in which there is as many quantum theories as there are quantum scientists. Any great quantum scientist says they really have no idea about it, so you can't admit it into evidence that it shows something from nothing. Do you see how dishonest your are being? We can only see down to the 10^25 level but we know it goes down to at least the 10^125 level some calculation. Yet things could be even smaller than that. If something is smaller then it stands to reason these are causal agents, so is quite asinine to pompously assume that something in nature comes from nothing when such does not even exist. Crazy.
You have a doubletongue. You suggest a universe outside our universe without the law of cause and effect but then say "it obeys different laws" which is a causal relationship to "obey". The big bang didn't start up all by itself or come from nothing, so it has a cause. Why shut your mind down to this fact? Even Stephen Hawking admits that. He says there is a cause for the point at the end of the badminton shoot or for the singularity. If there was no cause for the big bang you would not exist, nor would the big bang. If time did not exist before the big bang so according to you nothing could cause it, then time would never exist according to your theory nor would the big bang. Since time did not always exist and can't start up from nothing, we know it was caused by that which is outside of time whom we call the uncreated Creator or God. We don't need to know the how, but the who--the uncreated Creator. God takes care of the how. Stop requiring you be God to know if God exists. That will never do.The larger system has a nature of it's own, but it cannot be understood the way we understand our nature, because it is not our nature, it obeys different laws. Our nature did have a cause, the big bang. There was no cause 'before' the big bang, because time did not exist as we know it until that event occurred. How such an event occurs is beyond our ability to even fathom.
In the larger system you invoke of infinite regress, it remains true that you would have had an eternity to have come into being before now, so you should have already happened. Shutting your mind down to this fact doesn't make it go away. What shutting your mind down does do is lead you to Hell, since it is obvious to us all however much some of us shove it under the rug.You really need to abandon your 'you would have happened already, having had an eternity to do so' argument because it is meaningless in the 'larger system' context. It only applies if our universe had an infinite regress, and even then, why would it be impossible for me to happen twice, or more, given there was an eternity to do so?
Infinite regress would apply to any natural system, since every natural system needs a cause. If it didn't then it wouldn't exist.
Even if you could happen twice which is illogical because nothing can happen twice, you would have happened twice already before having had an eternity to do so.
Not only is it larger (figuratively speaking) but uncreated. This is whom we call God who has a mind which is necessary to create minds since the lesser can never produce the greater, e.g. two atoms bouncing can't create self-consciousness. A non-mind interatomic interaction can't become self-aware. It's just particles reacting according to laws. Laws need a law-giver.The cause of nature outside itself is the larger system. Simple.
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